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23:10 Tue 17 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
The key point is that in some of those defaults most people agree they were overscored and most importantly not in line with the guidelines in the rules. If they had been then there was little room for genuine complaints from any of the parties affected, either the teams involved or their fellow clans in the division.
Comes back to sticking 100% to all of the rules as they stand at the start of any season. Do that and you can ignore any arguments arising from them being applied other than genuine constructive discussions on whether any single rule can be improved for the future.
whocares8x8 said:
You only get 0 points if you've made absolutely no effort and rarely if ever been online. 0-0 is an extreme score!!
You can't just be handing those out to everyone who didn't send a message.
As an example, people had mentioned pirate_steve vs pool_champ_3 (or something like that). Both were fairly inactive- steve for 3 days at a time twice I think. poolchamp for 5 days at a time twice.
However, giving a 0-0 here would not be right. Because both were offline, made effort to play in the beginning of the fixture (I think both got a game done earlier). If you give these two a 0-0, then in a future game where both are completely inactive, you will be giving the same score (and if you like consistency, that's not fair).
So in that case, a 3-3 or a 4-4 would have been appropriate, rather than the 7-7 or 8-7 that was given.
I just wanted to illustrate that no decision is ever simple. Default teams will get some wrong, just like referees get decisions wrong in every game and sport around the world.
We will collectively have to learn to accept that and not question everything, even if it seems wrong.
You can't just be handing those out to everyone who didn't send a message.
As an example, people had mentioned pirate_steve vs pool_champ_3 (or something like that). Both were fairly inactive- steve for 3 days at a time twice I think. poolchamp for 5 days at a time twice.
However, giving a 0-0 here would not be right. Because both were offline, made effort to play in the beginning of the fixture (I think both got a game done earlier). If you give these two a 0-0, then in a future game where both are completely inactive, you will be giving the same score (and if you like consistency, that's not fair).
So in that case, a 3-3 or a 4-4 would have been appropriate, rather than the 7-7 or 8-7 that was given.
I just wanted to illustrate that no decision is ever simple. Default teams will get some wrong, just like referees get decisions wrong in every game and sport around the world.
We will collectively have to learn to accept that and not question everything, even if it seems wrong.
The key point is that in some of those defaults most people agree they were overscored and most importantly not in line with the guidelines in the rules. If they had been then there was little room for genuine complaints from any of the parties affected, either the teams involved or their fellow clans in the division.
Comes back to sticking 100% to all of the rules as they stand at the start of any season. Do that and you can ignore any arguments arising from them being applied other than genuine constructive discussions on whether any single rule can be improved for the future.
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23:12 Tue 17 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
I am willing to give it a try. Its all ready to go once the teams are known for next season.
bluenose1872 said:
Chris (Moderator) need to figure out this Individual League thing soon as possible mate, James (Dgen) has stepped down as a default member and individual league runner next season. Are you still wanting to try out your idea on this matter?
I am willing to give it a try. Its all ready to go once the teams are known for next season.
00:54 Wed 18 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link] No. that is your interpretation of the rules. The guidelines simply say that points may be deducted for less than enough effort. How much that is depends entirely on the interpretation of the default team, not the opinion of other players.Why should there be a right to appeal defaults? The decisions should stand, regardless of whether some believe they are right or wrong. Otherwise just do defaults here instead of in a default team.
The rules have been followed (or please tell me which rule was not followed). Even though I disagreed with some decisions in this set, just like decisions in past sets, I don't think defaults should be questioned or even overturned. That undermines the entire process. The defaults team decides the defaults.
chris said:
The key point is that in some of those defaults most people agree they were overscored and most importantly not in line with the guidelines in the rules.
chris said:
If they had been then there was little room for genuine complaints from any of the parties affected, either the teams involved or their fellow clans in the division.
chris said:
Comes back to sticking 100% to all of the rules as they stand at the start of any season. Do that and you can ignore any arguments arising from them being applied other than genuine constructive discussions on whether any single rule can be improved for the future
04:15 Wed 18 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
After a long discussion with the new league runners for next season about the schedule i have finally drawn it up and it is going to go something like this. This was discussed a while ago but with the arguing and stuff going on i called off the announcement of it.
Sun 29th Jan: - Season 15 ends.
Mon 30th Jan to Wed 8th Feb: - Transer Window.
Fri 10th Feb: - Full update of Team Sheet & List for pre-season fixtures in by Midnight.
Sun 12th Feb to Sun 26th Feb: - Pre-season friendlies.
Fri 2nd March: - Teamlists in by midnight for league fixture set one.
Sun 4th March - Release fixture set one (League Starts)
Above is what the Schedule is going to be, below is the Schedule for the league fixture sets.
Fixture Set One
Sun 4th March - Sun 18th March
Fixture Set Two
Sun 18th March - Sun 1st April
Fixture Set Three
Sun 1st April - Sun 15th April
Fixture Set Four
Sun 15th April - Sun 29th April
Fixture Set Five
Sun 29th April - Sun 13th May
At the moment i have only done the dates for five fixture sets as with new clans forming and some folding there should not be a change to the fixture sets anyway but the above is the rough guideline.
Sun 29th Jan: - Season 15 ends.
Mon 30th Jan to Wed 8th Feb: - Transer Window.
Fri 10th Feb: - Full update of Team Sheet & List for pre-season fixtures in by Midnight.
Sun 12th Feb to Sun 26th Feb: - Pre-season friendlies.
Fri 2nd March: - Teamlists in by midnight for league fixture set one.
Sun 4th March - Release fixture set one (League Starts)
Above is what the Schedule is going to be, below is the Schedule for the league fixture sets.
Fixture Set One
Sun 4th March - Sun 18th March
Fixture Set Two
Sun 18th March - Sun 1st April
Fixture Set Three
Sun 1st April - Sun 15th April
Fixture Set Four
Sun 15th April - Sun 29th April
Fixture Set Five
Sun 29th April - Sun 13th May
At the moment i have only done the dates for five fixture sets as with new clans forming and some folding there should not be a change to the fixture sets anyway but the above is the rough guideline.
22:14 Wed 18 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
At the start of this season i posted a rule so to speak about warnings and other things that was implemented by me and James, i have been trying to find this in the earlier forums and have had no luck as i was planning on keeping it for next season. If it is being used more and more then arguing would soon stop as the warnings and other stuff that goes with it could affect someone as a player. If i can't find it im going to sit down and have a think and maybe get a few ideas about it.
22:20 Wed 18 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
the rule in general or people been done by it? if its the people involved then under default forum check Warnings/Conceders, in fact i need to edit it tomorrow due to defaults from last set
Deleted User
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22:23 Wed 18 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
James, can you please send Jay the rule in offline message, he cant find it
01:05 Thu 19 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
if its arguing one it is an unofficial rule as its enforced but its a rule what shouldn't be on the website really as you should be able to trust members to act in a sensible manner
Deleted User
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01:23 Thu 19 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
Awarding of Non-Completion bonuses and players voting on their own team defaults are just two that spring to mind this season. Numerous examples from previous seasons including extensions etc.
I havent advocated changing the default scores given anywhere. Once a decision is made then it needs to be accepted whether it was right or wrong. However questioning the default process with a view to improving their future credibility is, on the other hand, perfectly valid.
whocares8x8 said:
The rules have been followed (or please tell me which rule was not followed). Even though I disagreed with some decisions in this set, just like decisions in past sets, I don't think defaults should be questioned or even overturned. That undermines the entire process. The defaults team decides the defaults.
Awarding of Non-Completion bonuses and players voting on their own team defaults are just two that spring to mind this season. Numerous examples from previous seasons including extensions etc.
I havent advocated changing the default scores given anywhere. Once a decision is made then it needs to be accepted whether it was right or wrong. However questioning the default process with a view to improving their future credibility is, on the other hand, perfectly valid.
01:56 Thu 19 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
Oh right, I thought you were saying that in the current defaults, rules weren't followed. Nevermind then
02:03 Thu 19 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
Reason i brought in the new look to the default panel was to stop people commenting on their own defaults. So for example - doubted2 is in Shooters and they are division one for next season, he is on the default panel this means that he can only make predictions on the division two defaults. He will be able to send in information to who ever i say is taking it for any default they may have but he can not post on his own one. If you dont send in information before the deadline then it will not be used, this is a rule i intend to be strict with.
So if you lost a default on the fact you never sent in information before the deadline it is your fault and it will not be taken into consideration as it was late.
Im hoping to fill the default panel with good reliable people very soon, have a few so far from each team so getting there.
So if you lost a default on the fact you never sent in information before the deadline it is your fault and it will not be taken into consideration as it was late.
Im hoping to fill the default panel with good reliable people very soon, have a few so far from each team so getting there.
Deleted User
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02:06 Thu 19 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
man clans dropping like flies what the hell going on here
Deleted User
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10:31 Thu 19 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
The curse of harry hoolahan strikes again ra ha ha ha
...just kidding harry
staffie_man said:
man clans dropping like flies what the hell going on here
The curse of harry hoolahan strikes again ra ha ha ha
...just kidding harry
Deleted User
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10:41 Thu 19 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
Well they weren't followed...the rules were changed at the start of the season and teams that made no effort were getting 7 or 8 points instead of the 2 or 3 they should have got.
When the rule got put through though it should have been made clearer to everyone that you only get what your efforts deserve from defaults now and the defaults team should have clearer guidelines.
whocares8x8 said:
Oh right, I thought you were saying that in the current defaults, rules weren't followed. Nevermind then
Well they weren't followed...the rules were changed at the start of the season and teams that made no effort were getting 7 or 8 points instead of the 2 or 3 they should have got.
When the rule got put through though it should have been made clearer to everyone that you only get what your efforts deserve from defaults now and the defaults team should have clearer guidelines.
10:49 Thu 19 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
Even with clearer guidelines, it's very difficult to tell how much effort has been made without activity trackers. I tried to make that clear a few posts ago.
Ultimately (as it says in the rules), the guidelines are just that- each decision comes down to the interpretation of the defaults team. And once the season starts, decisions should not be questioned ever! Otherwise we undermine the system as we have done this season.
With a new defaults team composed of all clans, there won't be any legitimate accusation of bias. Here's a rule for next season- anyone who openly questions or criticizes the default decisions will receive a warning for the first offense, a fixture ban for the second offense, and so on (just like the FA does).
Let's see how many default arguments we'll have then
Ultimately (as it says in the rules), the guidelines are just that- each decision comes down to the interpretation of the defaults team. And once the season starts, decisions should not be questioned ever! Otherwise we undermine the system as we have done this season.
With a new defaults team composed of all clans, there won't be any legitimate accusation of bias. Here's a rule for next season- anyone who openly questions or criticizes the default decisions will receive a warning for the first offense, a fixture ban for the second offense, and so on (just like the FA does).
Let's see how many default arguments we'll have then
Deleted User
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10:58 Thu 19 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
Everyone else is trying to stop defaults seb you're just interested in making sure you can do alright out of them.
FA doesn't award 3 points to teams that don't turn up, if you were getting the proper number of points your team deserved for their efforts from defaults you might have to get some players in your squad that use the site eh
FA doesn't award 3 points to teams that don't turn up, if you were getting the proper number of points your team deserved for their efforts from defaults you might have to get some players in your squad that use the site eh
11:03 Thu 19 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
erm- when did this suddenly become a Snooker Squad issue again? The arguments over defaults were ongoing well before the last fixture, which by all evidence was an outlier for us
Out of context- you'll find I was referring to the FA's system of punishing players/managers that undermine the referee (or in our case- the defaults team).
More cheap shots, nice. I would say with one exception we did get the proper number of points. And our players do use the site
Oh, and I'm more interested in eliminating the arguments on this site that at times threaten the league as a whole. Defaults can be dealt with and will never go away. The type of arguments we've seen this season can not be dealt with in the long-term.
ipotalot said:
FA doesn't award 3 points to teams that don't turn up
ipotalot said:
if you were getting the proper number of points your team deserved for their efforts from defaults you might have to get some players in your squad that use the site eh
Oh, and I'm more interested in eliminating the arguments on this site that at times threaten the league as a whole. Defaults can be dealt with and will never go away. The type of arguments we've seen this season can not be dealt with in the long-term.
Deleted User
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11:14 Thu 19 Jan 12 (GMT) [Link]
Example for you seb, this is the information we provided from our one default in 2 seasons in FBL...
From Team Angry thread..
12 days ago
6 days ago
4 days ago
The Unbeatables thread
9 days ago
6 days ago
5 days ago
if we need a sub just msg me il make sure im available whenever
5 days ago
4 days ago
page 1/2
Sent 5 months ago
Edited at 09:29 Thu 19/01/12 (GMT)
From Team Angry thread..
woowoo69 said:
I have sent 2nd message to aromaz (FBL game) because he/she has been online since my last message but still awaiting reply
12 days ago
woowoo69 said:
FBL update :
arranged to play Aromaz from Untouchables tonight. said he would be here sunday evening, I waited to 11:40pm but no show again, this is twice he has not shown.
I tried to write on their thread but it says it is capped
arranged to play Aromaz from Untouchables tonight. said he would be here sunday evening, I waited to 11:40pm but no show again, this is twice he has not shown.
I tried to write on their thread but it says it is capped
6 days ago
woowoo69 said:
Asked Unbeatables again to sort out my games.
aromaz off line 4 days and ol_case off line 5 days
aromaz off line 4 days and ol_case off line 5 days
4 days ago
The Unbeatables thread
wcfa2011 said:
im here if you need a sub for any
9 days ago
woowoo69 said:
Do we know where Aromaz is.
He said he would be here sunday evening to play FBL game but he has failed to show again ???
He said he would be here sunday evening to play FBL game but he has failed to show again ???
6 days ago
ipotalot said:
Hi Kayleigh, top_hat_cat and ol_case both been offline for four days and aromaz has no shown twice against woowoo69. Any news on those ones?
5 days ago
wcfa2011 said:
if we need a sub just msg me il make sure im available whenever
5 days ago
woowoo69 said:
Any news on my games please.
aromaz been offline 4 days and ol_case benn offline 5 days
aromaz been offline 4 days and ol_case benn offline 5 days
4 days ago
page 1/2
Sent 5 months ago
Edited at 09:29 Thu 19/01/12 (GMT)
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