And Jem, I like the idea of having inactive members receiving 0 points. But active players, should get points for there efforts!

Personally I am all for it - should reduce the moaning considerably.

i thought that discussion was passed? as i already explained to a number of MVP players that i simply locked the thread, not my fault only a couple of outsiders posted, i stated the deadline friday teatime when i looked i only saw 3 votes cast, clearly i was a little disappointed, not that i should have to explain anything to you.

and my idea wasn't because of that but reward players for playing games, if as you say the 7-7 on my scenario would be less than 5-5 and both clans would have -2 from their bonuses for non-effort.

No chance as i never moan in the first place

But James, why should 2 players get 7-7 for non-effort?

Surely 0-0 is more like it?

Possibly 0-0 would be too harsh as they probably both had some activity and possibly a message/sub offer etc.

3-3 or 4-4 is probably more realistic

I said non-effort.......

But yes, something better than 7-7...

Dgen please stop taking this as being personal against SS from MVP, the point being made is that SS had inactive players as did your opponents, the 7-7 result was generous to both parties, i also understand that your captain done a great job of providing details for defaults and opposing captain not so good thus why you have scored well from the defaults. We are using SS games as an example for future reference and saying when players are inactive, default team should apply a reduction on the points offered and it wouldn't matter how good your captain was at providing information your clan would be deducted some points in some form. So instead of 7 points you may have had a 2 or 3 point deduction applied due to inactivity.

*SS cap off*

*Head League Runner cap on*

4 - 5 pages read through... get to the end... im confused

I'll re-read this tomorrow at some point, well today as it is technically tomorrow

Oh and James has a right to take it personal after being hounded by so many people over these default predictions. I had no one come to me about it, granted i been busy this past week so not really been on at all but when you have so many people having a go at you, you tend to take it personally.

Chris (Moderator) need to figure out this Individual League thing soon as possible mate, James (Dgen) has stepped down as a default member and individual league runner next season. Are you still wanting to try out your idea on this matter?

If all the defaults actually reflected effort we would probably finally see the back of them.
To get over 8 points from a default you should have had to message opponents, post on clans pages or message the captains asking for subs and been active.
The only guidelines for a default score from a game should be that the 2 players scores combined don't go over 15.
You should be able to have 9-0, 5-2, 6-6 or any other score within that frame if that's what the players efforts reflect and the defaults team need evidence from messages and posts on their opponents pages.
If teams know they have to put in real effort to earn their points then they will rather than just having to put in slightly more effort than their opponent.
If teams put in real effort then the games will get played anyway.

Not the greatest post you've ever made...

It is currently extremely difficult to judge how much effort was truly made. We have no activity tracker, so we depend on captains telling us what happened.

You only get 0 points if you've made absolutely no effort and rarely if ever been online. 0-0 is an extreme score!!
You can't just be handing those out to everyone who didn't send a message.
As an example, people had mentioned pirate_steve vs pool_champ_3 (or something like that). Both were fairly inactive- steve for 3 days at a time twice I think. poolchamp for 5 days at a time twice.
However, giving a 0-0 here would not be right. Because both were offline, made effort to play in the beginning of the fixture (I think both got a game done earlier). If you give these two a 0-0, then in a future game where both are completely inactive, you will be giving the same score (and if you like consistency, that's not fair).
So in that case, a 3-3 or a 4-4 would have been appropriate, rather than the 7-7 or 8-7 that was given.

I just wanted to illustrate that no decision is ever simple. Default teams will get some wrong, just like referees get decisions wrong in every game and sport around the world.
We will collectively have to learn to accept that and not question everything, even if it seems wrong.

tell your members to stop making it personal then at least 4 MVP members has approached me about this, like i said "IF" i could comment on my own team defaults i would have given less points than they got (except mine and sebs game as it was their fault).

and i agree with you seb, just wish they would just accept it and stop moaning.

anyway because this annoyed me so much, i already told defaults team this but i have a few valid points to make.

- Clans should send in information by 48 hours after the deadline (last fixture ill post on clan thread with defaults so no excuses)

- I don't comment on my own teams defaults (only exception was earlier in the season)

- My own defaults team do not trust me despite being one of the most unbiased league runners ever.

Because of the above i refuse to do ANY defaults on final fixture set for anyone that includes Getting Info, Creating Thread, Commenting, Making Predictions and Locking Thread. i told bluenose he can do it and see how you like that maybe then i won't be blamed for crimes i didn't commit.

Dgen i dont blame you in the slightest, and I trusted you as a league runner and on default staff, thats one of the reasons i argued me case even more than i normally would, among alot of other reasons.

be sad to see you go on such a low note, you've done great with the league, the best you could do and more dispite users not makin it easy for you, and i apologise because id played a part in that, hopefully the clan seem will become more enjoyable soon and you can make a return, if not as league runner, but as a player, be another great loss to clans

no problem ant and thanks.

just wanted to enjoy the time i have left and then i could comment that i had a good season. got to prepare my farewell speech too soon.

maybe if next season gets better and the arguments in general die down then i could return the season after.

Fingers crossed mate, im got a feelin quite a few players are hopin the mood picks up around here

i sit and read all these posts ... pondering jems thoughts MVP and snooker squad comments

and a few others ,,,, and dgens

but i think uve got to look at the existing rules they were brought in to combat most of the previous comments
most if not all allow for all the above,,,, apart from jems (I agree in the perfect world), the rules are fair and could easily be applied with the division one vice versa for the defaults panel being included

another idea from me:

Clan Rankings

little like all the other sports you get points for whatever position you finish in. This could work 2 ways you can either have a set amount of points (e.g. 1st 100, 2nd 75 etc) or have what points you scored at end of season (e.g. if a clan finished on 750 points in the league thats points you would score).

reason i post this is because we know who best clan is during the course of a season but wouldn't it be good to see who the number 1 clan is overall?

i plan to do it on snooker unofficially next season (just for my own mind basically), the stats would tell you that Most Valuable Poolers (Pool) and Dollars and Cents (Snooker) according to league history, other people may have different views but wouldn't the stats be good?

the issues are simple the rules that we all work to are being broken ,, and are being allowed to be broken consistently

with a clear set of guidelines for the default panel,,, on how to arrive at a default decision (these already exist btw)

all i would say there is a need for defaults and points to be awarded , just follow the rules

captains and players cannot ever comment on their own defaults other than post within 48 hours their default information (again the rules are already in place).

with division one doing division 2 and vice versa this should remedy this

my problem this season is the amount of teams represented on the default panel, no disrespect to anyone but it dosnt represent the league does it ? ? ?