i was thinking because take antione last season, he didn't appreciate players making subs for him, yep games got played but he didn't appreciate it because he felt he was the one who should have done the subs being the captain.

one other clan felt the same way.

If your the type of clan that allows anyone to do subs then please post then i won't bother that team.

I'm for captains/vices only making subs.
If there's an unhappy player, he'll just come here, sub himself in, play a game. Usually, there's enough time for the sub to be made when the captain or vice next shows up.
If it's a last minute sub, the captain should give permission beforehand.

If anyone can sub, what's the point in having captains in the first place? Any disgruntled player could just come and sub himself in.

Result: CHAOS AHHHHHHH

Captains need to get over their egos and do their jobs which is ensuring games get played. If this means advising a number of players who are available as subs to look out for a specific player and to sub themselves in if they see them, this is good captaining which prevents defaults. If we decide that captain / vice have to do subs and then they are not very active then we are going to have a number of players on who could sub in and play but need to wait till their captain comes on which could be a few days just to post sub, this is really going to help defaults when we are supposedly trying to make sure their is less of them.

Totally agree with Keith, just making it harder to get games played, especially near the deadline where as keith mentioned, players asked by captains to look out for opponents and sub themselves in.

I think this should be the clans decision who makes and posts subs, if a captain doesn't want their players doing it they have it as a rule for their clan and inform the players, at MVP we want it so anyone can post subs in cases where we have asked players to watch out for opponents.

thats all i ask thanks

I would say in 99% of subs that have been posted by a player other than captain or vice it is usually always been done with the permission been given beforehand by the captain or vice. ie. can you look out for player x, player y or player z and if you see them please sub yourself in and play, it is the easiest formula to use with your subs to ensure games get played, this is being a good captain / vice and why you are there.

If any clan has a player who wants to post sub and cause trouble which is not something i have ever heard, surely a good captain would sort that individual out within the clan.

Dgen you are missing the point, all clans should run along some basis of this if we want all games played and no defaults, not just MVP. If another clan wants only captain/vice to do sub and they are inactive and the players who are in games in the fixture are inactive, i can apply the theory with MVP all day but if the other clan wont sub at they are waiting days for their captain to post and i cant get game played as player is inactive, more games will go to default.


For a rule that may appease certain captains egos, why not put a rule in week 1 of the fixtures only the captain / vice can do subs.

In week 2 all players in clan if any player sees a member of the opposition clan who is available to play in that fixture they can swap / sub and get games played, this will encourage players to get games played week 1 as they know they could easily lose their fixture in week 2 and also it will encourage captains to push players and do subs in week 1, which again should prevent defaults.

Yes this is radical, but if it reduces defaults it has got to be better than making things harder and trying to increase them!!!

My suggestion:

I think first week of a two-week fixture should be completely down to the Captain(s)/Vice.

As the deadline nears, then it could be loosened to other players, provided posted permission is given for that fixture on both their and the opponent's threads orr if the captain's are proving inactive/difficult to get hold of (at league runners' discretion).

As for swaps (think it's dealt with, but still) I think it should be allowed but the league runners are able to step in and reverse a decision if (and only if) they believe match-fixing is happening. I think that was what was agreed would happen, but yeah...

I agree with captains or vices making subs because we've had situations where the other team has talked a player into playing a game.

All clans work different, if you don't want your players subbing in or being talked into subbing in have the rule for your clan and inform the players that only the captain/vice can make subs.

How about relaxing it a bit and accepting if the captain or vice has posted on the team thread for players to sub themselves into remaining games?

I like that idea. If you want your players to be able to make subs, just post once at the beginning of the season- "All our players can make subs".

I'm confused here, because as i read through this, am i right in saying that you all agree to the same thing? The idea that any player can name a sub is great in theory, but can open up a world of problems. If this is going to be brought in one thing that would aide it is if the Captain holds rank over the rest. So if a player makes a sub, then the captain say's no, the captains vote stands.

That hasn't occured, and a game going to default because a captain/vice was too stubborn to let someone else sub in is possibly the most stupid way that a game could go unplayed - regardless of anything else about the fixture

If you choose to let a game go to default when it could be played with a simple sub (whether captain/vice is online or not) then you don't deserve any points from defaults - and you are a very selfish person to not let 2 people play simply because you are so bothered about getting a good score (its a game for fun, not a serious game)

I think Vi's answer was a reasonable way to keep both parties for and against happy, first week only captains/vice can make the change - second week anyone can

Yeah, the problem is that subs done by players will usually happen when the opponent is online and the captain isn't, so that the game can be played on the spot. So the captain wouldn't get a say until the game is played.

As I said before, I'm liking ipotalot's idea, that captains can give permission for players to post. The captain or vice-captain could post on team changes thread and specify how long the permission should last. So for example:

"MVP players may make subs all season"
or
"Snooker Squad players may make subs for the remainder of this fixture"

Simple to keep track of and not much work.

Because a captain has many roles - not just that. His job is to get his clan to have as few defaults as possible - and to be the main point of contact for both the league runners and members of other clans

And should such a disgruntled player go and sub himself in - I think there's a good chance he'd find himself out of a clan if there's no good reason

I still think subs should be the captain's or vice-captain's prerogative. If captains choose otherwise, they can post and then their players will have permission too. Everyone will be happy

But what if a clan forgets to do it one fixture? or doesn't do it at all and captain and vice go missing? clan members may not be able to know if they can or can't make subs - and while it is fairly simple to keep track of and not much work, it still is work

When you have around 10 clans who are all going to post at different times with some of them posting that they can all season, some never posting because they don't want them to at all and some just forgetting to - it may end up more hassle than other ways

And how would the rules apply then regarding defaults?

If a clan has a player online ready to play - but no one to who can authorise the sub in, is it fair to penalise them? If it is not, is it fair to penalise those who have the authority to sub in, but choose not to?

I think Vi's idea would work best - as you still have the same rules for every clan, so you always know where you stand as a player - plus having the ability to do ipotalot's idea for the first week, so clans like mvp still can have any player making a sub throughout the fixture

I'll go along with that idea, if people are in favor of it. I really think that if any player can just sub themselves in when they see any opponent online, it will cause a bunch of arguments within clans.

I understand that, but most clans will have enough trust in their players - who will in turn treat that trust with respect, as to only do so when appropriate (or when there captain tells them to look out for someone and sub anyone in)

It's not really caused any major problems as of yet, so I don't see the need for a radical change which will increase defaults if put in place.

Looking at the times it has happened, when the clan making the sub without captain/vice win - they are fine with it, it's when they lose that there seems to be an issue, which isn't really the best way to sort things out - People should want a rule change when it is right and fair, not when it goes against them - thats just bitterness

If you don't put in any players that you don't trust, you are unlikely to have a problem - unless you don't properly communicate with your clan, you wouldn't run into any real problems with it, with the exception of a player going crazy and deliberately trying to mess the clan about - which they could do other things anyway, making them playing a game not too damaging, and any other subs they make are easily reversable (and league runners could block the subs if they feel the player is abusing any power they have)

And most players leave it to captains anyway, unless otherwise instructed