Oh right. Didn't even realize that players could just sub themselves in at the moment. My mistake.
I was fine the way it was at the moment.

Last few seasons have been, although there is a change apparently which was posted a few hours ago
Not sure about before that, rules have changed too much since I started for me to remember it all

all i asked though is if you want your players to do the sub then post like MVP did, now i know they want players to sub themselves in.

Underdogs, Top Dogs and Team Angry are 3 clans far as i know who only want the higher power doing it unless they post.

Edited at 09:55 Wed 05/10/11 (BST)

its not ego if ur trying to win a game and a player who u didnt want subbing in subs himself in to play a game and theres a better player who would of had a better chance in the match the problem we had last year was players where subbing them selves in and not updating the result on either thread so when i was looking for swaps and subs id sorted it and some one said u cant put him in i played him last week i said well wheres the sub been posted etc he said sorry i forgot it causes a lot more work because people dont post sometimes when a sub has been done or a swap it should be posted on both clans threads and the result should so vices and captains know whats happened

just a quick one on this,,which should solve a few problems

why does the captain post for example somthing like this

the following players maybe subbed into this fixture to play the following game
------------------------------------------------------
shooters v anotherclan

mdj v anotherplayer (is the game outstanding)
chalkie35
doubted2
blueberry

if mdj is not online and these players are ask any to sub in and please complete the fixture
------------------------------------------------------------------

this way a player who isnt the best within a clan does get put in a position to let the team down etc

views please

^ thats fine as well. long as its posted in clan thread, here or subs page.

I've said this already that all clans work different, let the captains decide how they want it done then post it in their own clan thread to make their own players aware, then if someone does sub in that shouldn't its the clans problem for the captain to sort out, not the leagues or the opponents, this way anyone can post subs but everyone should be aware of their own clans rules on it, not the league runners problem then and captains can't complain if someone does sub in when they shouldn't, I don't think we need a league rule on it.

We probably won't agree on this.

Any player has the potential to completely ruin a fixture. Once he subs in and plays the game, there's nothing that can be done about it. Yes, I could kick him out of the clan, but by that time he may have taken out my best player and lost 14-1.
If there is a rule about captains and vices subbing, then this couldn't happen, because the sub would be invalid.

Having said that, if players have been able to make subs for the last few seasons already (I didn't know this), then I'm fine with the way it was. It's still a big can of worms in my opinion.

While I'd like to leave it to clan captains to decide on it, there are problems, especially if the captains choose they want to do the subs themselves.

I think in the final game of the season, both me and Adam weren't online for a number of days, so when I logged on, we needed a number of subs to be made in both FBL and FCL (since I wasn't involved with UB in FCL I couldn't make them) and we nearly let about 7/8 games go to default in the two leagues. With Top Dogs last season, both Ant and Kay had times where they weren't logging in for a number of days and games were looking to go to default and would have done if it weren't for a few of our players making subs.

Although you can argue it's undermining their role, frankly if they aren't active coming to the end of a fixture with a few outstanding games, then it should go to the players to be able to make subs.

Then, if a clan chooses to allow players to sub in at will, you might get those who want to play every fixture sub in when they see a possible opponent online (as has been mentioned) or players can swap their fixtures around to make sure they are more likely to win the fixture-that way the captain can't be blamed as (as far as can be proven) (s)he has no role in it.

Also, as Zak pointed out, letting clans choose one way or another makes it difficult for defaults-do you be more lenient on clans where only captains are allowed to sub in since it's more difficult to make subs or harsher as they make it harder?

I was never aware that any player could make subs within the clan but did come across it 2 seasons ago in 8's (think it was zant that mentioned it) and i felt it was wrong. Whats the point of a captain if every member can just sub in when they like. Most captains put out their strongest players initially and have the remainder as back up like in any sport.

its like the 20 second shot time in this case, if you want players to do subs then post like MVP did, its simple as that.

far as im aware when Jan ran the league only captains/vices did subs (as it should be) and didn't have too many problems.

Edited at 13:15 Wed 05/10/11 (BST)

some captains leave strongest players until last just in case a sub is needed.

If you have a player in a fixture who you would not like to sub themselves in, is that not unfair on them? what is the point of them being in your clan if you are actively looking not to play them?

When I have captained, I always left myself out of the initial fixture (and a few other select players) for the very good reason of reliability, I have my most reliable players not in the fixture, this gives the less active and reliable players a chance to play a game without depending on them showing up last minute, and the reliable players would always get a game because i'd sub them into a fixture that was having difficulty (or let them sub themselves in)

I think Craig's idea is a good one, that not only each individual clan gives orders as to who can authorise the subs, but also who can be subbed in by anyone but a captain/vice (obviously a captain or vice can sub anyone in still) although it is still discriminating against a player, if you don't want them to play, why are they in your clan?

I think if you let individual clans govern themselves, then you still need the same rules for all with regards to how to treat it on a default - which should be, if a player can be subbed in, but no one does so after a request then it goes against them on a default, whether anyone who can authorise the sub is online or not (because it is up to that clan to decide who has subbing authority and not the fault of the other clan)

posted on all clan threads asking them to post here if they let their players sub themselves in (if so like MVP) then the rule doesn't apply to them.

i neva let my players sub in as it be unfair to the player theve subed

Why dont you just have a poll?

Or maybe have a voting system from captains?

dont know how it would work.. but stops all the advantages and disadvantages been posted Etc..

I'll post an update soon on how we want it, could be captains and vice only post subs first week and anyone 2nd week, we will confirm soon.

i for one believe captains should pick teams, do all subs etc

afterall thats what a captains / vice role is in the team

selecting 2 or 3 players who are available to play should surfice, discrimination is a stong word at best

but picking 8 ppl with a max of 7 left is what team sport is about. its not discriminating its a choice players have to accept before joining any team. the captain or manager picks the team whether you play or not thats the way it is .....certainly not discrimination

Captains always pick the teams, and captain/vice decide the subs, my problem here is only having captains/vice being able to post the subs, we want to be able to say to our subs to watch out for opponents and if you see them play and post the sub, I wish all captains would do this, it helps get games played, I am not expecting players to sub themselves in just for the sake of it.

^ true but not all captains would do this, i know Top Dogs certainly wouldn't.

regarding defaults the sub thing would go against the team who didn't sub (activity counts as normal) but thats for default team to decide but happy to announce we should be getting activity logs next season so defaults should be more precise unlike last season