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16:03 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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I just want to echo this- pirate_steve
I realise no one wants teams folding during the season, but surely its now time for something to be done about Eagles :
kingdadcool(Captain) ~ Not able to get online
_pro__frog_(Vice Captain) ~ Not able to get online
breksis ~ offline 3 days
king_joffery (Olle) ~ deact
flash_is_bac (Dillion)~offline 2 days
emmajackson~ offline 5 days
gordo ~inactive 1 month
bradonforest ~ inactive 15 days
chosen_one - FBL ~ deact
This leaves 5 players to get FBL and FCL fixtures played
Edited at 12:43 Wed 26/03/14 (GMT)
kingdadcool(Captain) ~ Not able to get online
_pro__frog_(Vice Captain) ~ Not able to get online
breksis ~ offline 3 days
king_joffery (Olle) ~ deact
flash_is_bac (Dillion)~offline 2 days
emmajackson~ offline 5 days
gordo ~inactive 1 month
bradonforest ~ inactive 15 days
chosen_one - FBL ~ deact
This leaves 5 players to get FBL and FCL fixtures played
Edited at 12:43 Wed 26/03/14 (GMT)
I just want to echo this- pirate_steve
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16:20 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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I would like to echo this echo
I just want to echo this- Pirate_steve
I would like to echo this echo
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16:22 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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I would like to echo this echo
echo
Its like an echo inception...
I just want to echo this- Pirate_steve
I would like to echo this echo
echo
Its like an echo inception...
16:38 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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I'd love to help Eagles out. Recruit them players etc, but it's all pointless whilst they don't have a figurehead. No point in me, or anyone else recruiting 3 or 4 players for them, only for them to be in limbo with no-one instructing them what to do.
Unless there is a captain that is on here daily that wants to run Eagles - they are finished.
Unless there is a captain that is on here daily that wants to run Eagles - they are finished.
16:57 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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breksis 3 days offline
pro-frog..cant get online PC
emmajackson 5 days offline
FCL v PRO
Can all and any Eagles players be allowed to sub in swap in etc etc to get games played...otherwise we have no hope to complete this fixture?
pro-frog..cant get online PC
emmajackson 5 days offline
FCL v PRO
Can all and any Eagles players be allowed to sub in swap in etc etc to get games played...otherwise we have no hope to complete this fixture?
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18:13 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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Like I've said a few times, the Eagles situation is going to be looked at. We have now opened up this topic between ourselves to try and see what the best course of action is.
The main problem at the moment seems to be that they have nobody to run the clan and a distinct lack of players (5 active players at the minute)
Edited at 16:19 Wed 26/03/14 (GMT)
The main problem at the moment seems to be that they have nobody to run the clan and a distinct lack of players (5 active players at the minute)
Edited at 16:19 Wed 26/03/14 (GMT)
18:15 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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i have updated fbl/fcl for eagles to try help them out abit.
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18:18 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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The League Runners are meant to monitor things, if they dont see any activity about a certain match, what's to stop them messaging Captains and mentioning it. Would wakeup some Captains, make them active and reduce defaults a hell of a lot. (call it a gentle nudge, apart from releasing fixtures what running are they doing, sarah does the updating of scores)
Im 100% against this panel prediction malarky and regardless whos idea it were I have stated shadwell17 (co capt) will be Phoenix Storms rep, that is my recommendation.
Thanx.
How much more do you want us to do? As has been said on numerous topics league runners should and will not get involved with the running of participating teams. I've asked chapster_7 to oversee the panel and as every clan is only allowed one member this unfortunately takes up your spots - However please remember that this is only a trial for now!
On a slightly related note - I seem to have to keep asking this. Could we please try and keep this thread purely for constructive criticism/feedback/ideas. Some of you don't seem to understand what this is. Repeatedly posting your opinions does not get us anywhere and instead descends the thread into arguments.
Let's try and keep this moving in a positive direction
The League Runners are meant to monitor things, if they dont see any activity about a certain match, what's to stop them messaging Captains and mentioning it. Would wakeup some Captains, make them active and reduce defaults a hell of a lot. (call it a gentle nudge, apart from releasing fixtures what running are they doing, sarah does the updating of scores)
Im 100% against this panel prediction malarky and regardless whos idea it were I have stated shadwell17 (co capt) will be Phoenix Storms rep, that is my recommendation.
Thanx.
How much more do you want us to do? As has been said on numerous topics league runners should and will not get involved with the running of participating teams. I've asked chapster_7 to oversee the panel and as every clan is only allowed one member this unfortunately takes up your spots - However please remember that this is only a trial for now!
On a slightly related note - I seem to have to keep asking this. Could we please try and keep this thread purely for constructive criticism/feedback/ideas. Some of you don't seem to understand what this is. Repeatedly posting your opinions does not get us anywhere and instead descends the thread into arguments.
Let's try and keep this moving in a positive direction
19:20 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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Sounds good but like some have said to scrap the FCL probably wont happen as it is a step too far for most.
Another suggestion would be to cut FCL to 4 games per fixture and have teams of 8 players which should mean almost twice as much teams. You could then do mini leagues and top 2, 3 or 4 qualify etc depending on league size then knockout. With only 4 games it means that you could easily get more shock results as top players would probably be spread across a number of the teams. No need for bonuses as each clan would get 2 points for a win in the leagues and then it would be knockout. Also means defaults would be easier as it would only affect the winner of a fixture and not distort leagues with high points or low point awards.
If there is a desire for more than one league and there is plenty who like the every frame to count format beenjammin to name one. I have liked the cup this season with longer formats of players favourite type. So why not make the second league FBL style except play 12 racks of each and every frame counts, top scoring team wins the league. 1 player 12 x US8, 1 player 12 x US9, 1 player 12 x UK8 and then one player plays mixed 4 racks of each. Again it is only 4 games in the fixture with teams of 8. You could also add in killer if everyone was wanting it but i would think 2 v 2 would be ample to make it easier to sort.
I know this is way different from what we have but i think more and more are saying that clan leagues are stale and boring so maybe it is time for some large changes to spice them up.
Bump as if we change the way scoring is applied in the leagues. The defaults are way easier to be done and have little or no impact on the overall league, just the game between the 2 teams involved. Also by running with 2 formats we have the team format counting and each individual frame counting.
Scrap all leagues and create one new league with 7 man teams in a champions League format involving 4 team groups and knockout stages. Fast seasons increase new player turnover while decreasing long periods of inactivity. More teams because of smaller number of players in teams creates more competition making it hard for one team to dominate season after season. First season would probably have one outright leading team but second seasons teams can only have 2 players maximum that finished in the top 20 for golden cue.
Sounds good but like some have said to scrap the FCL probably wont happen as it is a step too far for most.
Another suggestion would be to cut FCL to 4 games per fixture and have teams of 8 players which should mean almost twice as much teams. You could then do mini leagues and top 2, 3 or 4 qualify etc depending on league size then knockout. With only 4 games it means that you could easily get more shock results as top players would probably be spread across a number of the teams. No need for bonuses as each clan would get 2 points for a win in the leagues and then it would be knockout. Also means defaults would be easier as it would only affect the winner of a fixture and not distort leagues with high points or low point awards.
If there is a desire for more than one league and there is plenty who like the every frame to count format beenjammin to name one. I have liked the cup this season with longer formats of players favourite type. So why not make the second league FBL style except play 12 racks of each and every frame counts, top scoring team wins the league. 1 player 12 x US8, 1 player 12 x US9, 1 player 12 x UK8 and then one player plays mixed 4 racks of each. Again it is only 4 games in the fixture with teams of 8. You could also add in killer if everyone was wanting it but i would think 2 v 2 would be ample to make it easier to sort.
I know this is way different from what we have but i think more and more are saying that clan leagues are stale and boring so maybe it is time for some large changes to spice them up.
Bump as if we change the way scoring is applied in the leagues. The defaults are way easier to be done and have little or no impact on the overall league, just the game between the 2 teams involved. Also by running with 2 formats we have the team format counting and each individual frame counting.
19:36 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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Not necessarily against cutting clan sizes, maybe to 14 or 12, but 16 to 8 is drastic.
I've said myself there should be one league scored by frames, one by indiv matches, and one by team matches, and none of them should compromise. The FCL though, has always counted frames, and it should be the one that continues to, just needs to drop the compromise (bonus points for team match wins). The FBL already counts iindiv matches, it just needs to drop it's compromise. What you want to do with FCL is almost exactly what super league is doing now, decided by team matches, knockout at the end like a cup.
About defaults, I don't think any scoring system renders them with less of an impact than the others do.
About have 2 or 3 leagues, definately need 2 to represent counting frames, and counting team match wins, Whether we need a 3rd depends on how many people still want a league that counts indiv match wins.
Edited at 17:44 Wed 26/03/14 (GMT)
I've said myself there should be one league scored by frames, one by indiv matches, and one by team matches, and none of them should compromise. The FCL though, has always counted frames, and it should be the one that continues to, just needs to drop the compromise (bonus points for team match wins). The FBL already counts iindiv matches, it just needs to drop it's compromise. What you want to do with FCL is almost exactly what super league is doing now, decided by team matches, knockout at the end like a cup.
About defaults, I don't think any scoring system renders them with less of an impact than the others do.
About have 2 or 3 leagues, definately need 2 to represent counting frames, and counting team match wins, Whether we need a 3rd depends on how many people still want a league that counts indiv match wins.
Edited at 17:44 Wed 26/03/14 (GMT)
19:42 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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The problem with FCL since the start and has raised its head again is how difficult it is to do a default when there are 15 frames to play for. The default would be done like FBL this season which is easy when it is 2 points for a win or 1-1 for a draw. That 2 points only effect that one game and the match between the 2 teams it has no bearing in overall points for the league as a team can only gain points for the overall fixture win. Thus it has no impact on any other team like current defaults can as has been shown.
Not necessarily against cutting clan sizes, maybe to 14 or 12, but 16 to 8 is drastic.
I've said myself there should be one league scored by frames, one by indiv matches, and one by team matches, and none of them should compromise. The FCL though, has always counted frames, and it should be the one that continues to, just needs to drop the compromise (bonus points for team match wins). The FBL already counts iindiv matches, it just needs to drop it's compromise. What you want to do with FCL is almost exactly what super league is doing now.
About defaults, I don't think any scoring system renders them with less of an impact than the others do.
I've said myself there should be one league scored by frames, one by indiv matches, and one by team matches, and none of them should compromise. The FCL though, has always counted frames, and it should be the one that continues to, just needs to drop the compromise (bonus points for team match wins). The FBL already counts iindiv matches, it just needs to drop it's compromise. What you want to do with FCL is almost exactly what super league is doing now.
About defaults, I don't think any scoring system renders them with less of an impact than the others do.
The problem with FCL since the start and has raised its head again is how difficult it is to do a default when there are 15 frames to play for. The default would be done like FBL this season which is easy when it is 2 points for a win or 1-1 for a draw. That 2 points only effect that one game and the match between the 2 teams it has no bearing in overall points for the league as a team can only gain points for the overall fixture win. Thus it has no impact on any other team like current defaults can as has been shown.
19:45 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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Ok , so then there is a chance it won't have an impact, I'll give you that, still possible it could decide the team match tho, and have a huge impact.
20:03 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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Just realized FBL doesn't keep the points for indiv wins, it only uses them to decide team matches. So it doesn't really count indiv matches, it's decided by team matches too!
I thought it originally planned to keep the points for indiv wins and give a bonus for team match wins this season?
That's the difference between what you want and what SL is doing now huh? Both decided by team match wins, but you want to use indiv match wins to decide the team matches, instead of using frame wins to decide team matches.
Never realized there were so many different options , as soon as there's one league that counts frames without compromise, I'll be happy, do with the others what you will, I'll be sporting and play in them too.
Edited at 18:13 Wed 26/03/14 (GMT)
I thought it originally planned to keep the points for indiv wins and give a bonus for team match wins this season?
That's the difference between what you want and what SL is doing now huh? Both decided by team match wins, but you want to use indiv match wins to decide the team matches, instead of using frame wins to decide team matches.
Never realized there were so many different options , as soon as there's one league that counts frames without compromise, I'll be happy, do with the others what you will, I'll be sporting and play in them too.
Edited at 18:13 Wed 26/03/14 (GMT)
20:26 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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The problem with FCL since the start and has raised its head again is how difficult it is to do a default when there are 15 frames to play for.
I agree it's a problem how it is at the moment, when someone who prob would've scored 13 against their opponent ends up with 4 or 6 because their opponent wouldn't play. But the new method on trial will solve that, it'll give the score that most likely would've been obtained anyway, at least to anyone not at fault.
The problem with FCL since the start and has raised its head again is how difficult it is to do a default when there are 15 frames to play for.
I agree it's a problem how it is at the moment, when someone who prob would've scored 13 against their opponent ends up with 4 or 6 because their opponent wouldn't play. But the new method on trial will solve that, it'll give the score that most likely would've been obtained anyway, at least to anyone not at fault.
20:29 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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If a game was 8 - 6 with one game left to play that had gone to default. If Team A's player had most effort they would deserve the 2 points and vice versa for Team B if they had put the most effort in. One outcome ends up with 2 points to team A, the other ends up with one point each.
In current FCL if we had two teams on same or similar number of points and either team A or Team B are awarded a default of even a couple of points. Team A or B would then also receive an extra 20 for the match win but also if they only got a couple of points they have lost out on a potential 13 points which in a number of cases they would win a few points from so they lose ground on the other teams. Yes they have only got 2 points as minimal effort was made but no matter what happens the default ends up having a major impact on the overall league.
By changing it to the 2 points for a win format the teams were always going to get either 2 points if they won, 1 if they draw or 0 if they lose. So the default has no impact on the actual league as the teams involved were always going to get one of those points award. The default only has an impact on the result between the 2 teams which is only fair if one team puts in more effort than the other.
Ok , so then there is a chance it won't have an impact, I'll give you that, still possible it could decide the team match tho, and have a huge impact.
If a game was 8 - 6 with one game left to play that had gone to default. If Team A's player had most effort they would deserve the 2 points and vice versa for Team B if they had put the most effort in. One outcome ends up with 2 points to team A, the other ends up with one point each.
In current FCL if we had two teams on same or similar number of points and either team A or Team B are awarded a default of even a couple of points. Team A or B would then also receive an extra 20 for the match win but also if they only got a couple of points they have lost out on a potential 13 points which in a number of cases they would win a few points from so they lose ground on the other teams. Yes they have only got 2 points as minimal effort was made but no matter what happens the default ends up having a major impact on the overall league.
By changing it to the 2 points for a win format the teams were always going to get either 2 points if they won, 1 if they draw or 0 if they lose. So the default has no impact on the actual league as the teams involved were always going to get one of those points award. The default only has an impact on the result between the 2 teams which is only fair if one team puts in more effort than the other.
20:34 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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The problem with FCL since the start and has raised its head again is how difficult it is to do a default when there are 15 frames to play for.
I agree it's a problem how it is at the moment, when someone who prob would've scored 13 against their opponent ends up with 4 or 6 because their opponent wouldn't play. But the new method on trial will solve that, it'll give the score that most likely would've been obtained anyway, at least to anyone not at fault.
The new method wont as if they decide you could only win 9-6 the most you would get is 9. Defaults should have nothing to do with player ability, they are purely down to players effort to get a game played. In current format if you made 100% effort you would get a true reflection on the average scores for that fixture which is usually pretty accurate.
The craig one has been different from any other and shows a clear flaw. In reality they should start at 8 - 0 which is a win and then you could move up or down from their depending on a number of factors. One factor that should never be considered is players ability, purely the application to get the game played as that is why we have a default in the first place.
The problem with FCL since the start and has raised its head again is how difficult it is to do a default when there are 15 frames to play for.
I agree it's a problem how it is at the moment, when someone who prob would've scored 13 against their opponent ends up with 4 or 6 because their opponent wouldn't play. But the new method on trial will solve that, it'll give the score that most likely would've been obtained anyway, at least to anyone not at fault.
The new method wont as if they decide you could only win 9-6 the most you would get is 9. Defaults should have nothing to do with player ability, they are purely down to players effort to get a game played. In current format if you made 100% effort you would get a true reflection on the average scores for that fixture which is usually pretty accurate.
The craig one has been different from any other and shows a clear flaw. In reality they should start at 8 - 0 which is a win and then you could move up or down from their depending on a number of factors. One factor that should never be considered is players ability, purely the application to get the game played as that is why we have a default in the first place.
20:39 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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Already said this to ash, but...
Effort made is still the biggest factor, but the goal of a default score is to prevent any alterations caused to the league standings because the game wasn't played.
What better way to do that, than start with the most probable score, had the game been played?
We just keep finding things to disagree on
Effort made is still the biggest factor, but the goal of a default score is to prevent any alterations caused to the league standings because the game wasn't played.
What better way to do that, than start with the most probable score, had the game been played?
We just keep finding things to disagree on
20:46 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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There is no probable score, i could guess that people would predict that if we played that you would probably win. (Me included) But as you know i have beating you in the past so i will already be at a disadvantage when the default is done. That is clearly a flaw in the method to start with. Ability has nothing to do with it. If you were the one making all the effort you would deserve the points from 8 upwards. But at the same time if i had done all the chasing i should be getting 8 points or above as well, ability has no part of the default it is purely down to application and effort to get the game played.
Already said this to ash, but...
Effort made is still the biggest factor, but the goal of a default score is to prevent any alterations caused to the league standings because the game wasn't played.
What better way to do that, than start with the most probable score, had the game been played?
Effort made is still the biggest factor, but the goal of a default score is to prevent any alterations caused to the league standings because the game wasn't played.
What better way to do that, than start with the most probable score, had the game been played?
There is no probable score, i could guess that people would predict that if we played that you would probably win. (Me included) But as you know i have beating you in the past so i will already be at a disadvantage when the default is done. That is clearly a flaw in the method to start with. Ability has nothing to do with it. If you were the one making all the effort you would deserve the points from 8 upwards. But at the same time if i had done all the chasing i should be getting 8 points or above as well, ability has no part of the default it is purely down to application and effort to get the game played.
20:51 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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I disagree, there is a probable score. If we played 100 matches, you'd certainly win some of them (and yeah you spanked me good once ) but the average score of those 100 matches is predictable.
This average should be our starting score for a default, before effort is considered. Then if one of us is more at fault for it not being played, the deductions would commence.
Of course noone knows for certain what exactly the outcome would've been, but they do know what it probably would've been. If the match wasn't played, it's the next best thing.
Edited at 18:59 Wed 26/03/14 (GMT)
This average should be our starting score for a default, before effort is considered. Then if one of us is more at fault for it not being played, the deductions would commence.
Of course noone knows for certain what exactly the outcome would've been, but they do know what it probably would've been. If the match wasn't played, it's the next best thing.
Edited at 18:59 Wed 26/03/14 (GMT)
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20:54 Wed 26 Mar 14 (GMT)
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I have a question? What happens with a Killer Default?
We just played Uprising Ultras and if that had been defaulted and gone to a panel, there is NO WAY in hell we would have been awarded any points when we actually won both 4-2? The 2nd one being WON by friendyboy who potted 45/46 shots.
You can't predict anything, you can assume but assumptions get you NO WHERE.
Teams were: precision, tombo1, friendyboy vs erigert, zante & r1p0m4n_v2
Edited at 18:58 Wed 26/03/14 (GMT)
We just played Uprising Ultras and if that had been defaulted and gone to a panel, there is NO WAY in hell we would have been awarded any points when we actually won both 4-2? The 2nd one being WON by friendyboy who potted 45/46 shots.
You can't predict anything, you can assume but assumptions get you NO WHERE.
Teams were: precision, tombo1, friendyboy vs erigert, zante & r1p0m4n_v2
Edited at 18:58 Wed 26/03/14 (GMT)
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