plus in theory players could leave after a frame to try and break off for all 9 frames but i do like rewards for attacking play

Not sure where you got the no one wanted a win bonus in FCL. It was wanted actually by ALOT because then if a clan wins all their games they get full bonus and should win the league. It has been put up again to make sure that this would happen, in which many wanted it put back up.

Was around about Season 4 - ab or keith might remember exactly.

And why was it lowered if its now being raised back up? Presumably because opinions changed as events occurred.

That was nearly 16 seasons ago. Nothing to do with me and how you expect me to know that is beyond me, i was not even around then

There was a changed a few seasons ago (actually i think it was when James was running the league and it was decreased, i might be wrong though as it could have been me the season after that). I do remember back then that there was a vote and the majority went to decrease. FCL has large frames so something that happened in the FBL has a slim chance of happening in the FCL, Keith was talking to me about an increase and mentioned the FCL. So to make sure it could be near impossible to lose while winning all games + frames i raised it. There was nothing wrong with it when it was 20 before and nothing wrong with the 10, just a precaution.

It's not always about you!!

Pretty sure it was season 6 it was introduced after UT won season 5 despite MVP going unbeaten

I remember there was a lot of complaints a few seasons back and it got reduced to 10 points. Problem with 10 points like FBL this season it is not enough to prevent a team losing a game and still winning the league

^^^

That is why i have put the FCL up.

Having taken it down previously. Need to show the courage of conviction rather than blowing with the wind!!

Someone must have pointed out the flaw that existed

At a guess

I have the balls to stand my ground and what i say, it was 10 for three + seasons. Keith made a point on it a week or so ago and i actually agreed with it and changed it, nothing wrong with that

Although there was a slim chance of it happening there was a flaw none the less.

Moved here rather than clog up another thread...



Lets throw another couple of points in to all of the previous ones to show why frames scored does not necessarily reward the best team (which you have always posted is what you want).

I have a team with say 6 good players and my opponents have 2. The fixture draw puts 2 of my good players against 2 of theirs. Because my aim is simply to win as many frames as I can, I switch the fixtures around so that none of my 6 good players are playing any of theirs. Why risk 2 players only scoring maybe 6-8 frames when I can almost guarantee them 10-15 against weaker opponents. Suddenly you have gone from a set of competitive games to a set of uncompetitive games.

Players should be wanting to test themselves against the best opponents not be taken out of a competitive game and placed into a non-competeive one simply to amass as many frames as possible.

I don't expect you to know anything of this but there is a phrase used in cricket that is apt to describe the situation here. 'Flat track bullies'

Another scenario, and one that becomes more relevant as you move into summer holiday period. I have a team which at full strength is beating all of the other teams in direct fixtures. Some of my players then go away on holiday so I have to rotate in lesser players. These lesser players are still good enough to win as a team of 8 overall against any other team but because overall the strength has been weakened they win by smaller margins.

You as my direct opponents end up winning the league by frames score, having already lost to my team in a direct fixture, simply because some of my best players went away on holiday whilst all yours remain active. Whatever way you look at it, that is your good fortune (luck) and is in no way at all rewarding you as the better team in terms of performance during the season. You are a winner by circumstances.

I am not saying you cannot have leagues decided by frame score as clearly you can and no doubt they will stay and thats fine. However the point is that in terms of frame scores deciding a better team there are far, far more arguments against that method than there are for it.

how many sports do you watch?

I dont like horse racing, show jumping or swimming - but most others are fair game!!

That first point you're trying to make,
yes you could have your good players avoid their best 2, and give your players an opportunity to win more frames.
At the same time though, you've given their best the same opportunity. What difference does it make in the overall score?

The second point is a problem, but it could happen with both methods. What if your best players went on vacation while you had a fixture against your direct opponent?

That part about having more arguements, there are countless arguments that can be made for both sides. The question is, how many of them actually make a point

The first point is because I dont care what the opponents score - I only care what I score. Even more so when the opponents in that fixture are not a close challenger overall.

Second point - the scenario only has an effect in the direct fixture it happens in. Not over a whole season.

I have not really seen any major argument for but you have already accepted several arguments against - here and previously!!

As I have said, you can have any scoring system you want to decide a winner but you cannot promote frame count as being a true and best reflection of a season and one with least luck when it clearly is not.

The original super league was the best for me, bring it back... no need to change something every season

The first point, you haven't increased your score!
Did you not read my post? You gave the oppoonents a swap, you may have won more with 2 players, but lost more with 2 of your other players.

second point, it does affect the whole season(As a matter of fact it decides the season using your method). It would cause you to lose that fixture.

You clearly don't even try to understand me.

Accepted what?
All I've been doing is proving your points ridiculous or off subject(unaffected by your decision on this matter)

Edited at 15:33 Tue 21/05/13 (BST)

Edited at 15:51 Tue 21/05/13 (BST)

You say you havent seen a major argument for my side.
I posted a few, they havent been disproved, maybe you missed them or didn't understand. Here's another.
You see a team that wins all their matches as unbeaten, because you see matches as games, and frames as points within.
I see frames as games, noone goes unbeaten.

Can't you agree though, that in any match, the more games played, the more accurate the outcome?(in other words, the smaller the chance that the best player won't win)

If you do agree, then realize this,
There are far more frames being won and lost than there are fixtures to work with. So how can you deny that counting frames is more accurate?

Again, the points system is rendered obsolete anyway, if you're gonna have a knockout round at the end of the season.
Turns it into a cup match

In football you win your games and you get 3 points, it doesn't matter if you win 1-0 or 10-0 you still get 3 points.

If you win all your games 1-0 over a 20 game season you will have 60 points and even if the other team won 19 games 10-0 and lost 1 game to you 0-1 they would only have 57 points and all those goals they have scored would prove pointless.

Any form of competitive sport should be no different if you win all your games against all other teams you should be the champions.

Only time frames should come into it if 2 teams are equal same as goal difference.

For example unlike above one team wins 19 games x 10-0 and lose 1 game 1-0. The other team wins 19 games 1-0 and loses 1 game 10-0.

This would mean the 2 team were tied on 57 points but the goal differences would be 190-1 for team 1 and team 2 would be 19-10. In which cases team 1 would rightfully win the championship on goal difference as points in games played were the same.

Frame difference should be the same for pool competition and only decide if teams are tied.

A team that beats all other teams should always be the rightful winners in any competition. If both teams lost a game each then frames should only decide when match results are tied.