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10:47 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
This would deal with it
qpounder said:
new accounts can only join a clan and be eligable for the league pre season
This would deal with it
10:50 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
Actually it is wrong ^, just it isn't looked for
dgeneratio said:
its only prohibited if you log in both at same time, nothing wrong with 2 accounts as long as you dont use it to up your rank or play friendlies with yourself.
Site Rules said:
Each user should have no more than ONE account. Any user that has more than one username, could have their secondary or higher usernames banned without warning. Ordinarily we will not check for multiple accounts but when any funkypool rule is broken, we may take action against all accounts.
Posting under multiple accounts on the forum will lead to any secondary or higher usernames being banned.
Posting under multiple accounts on the forum will lead to any secondary or higher usernames being banned.
Actually it is wrong ^, just it isn't looked for
10:53 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
i know about the site rules but some admins dont mind it as long as you dont log into both, i must admit ive had 2 accounts in the past (all deactivated now on snooker) but i just used it to see what % i could get in carom after 500 turns and somewhere where i can have some quiet time.
10:54 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
i just thought of something, they could get round 2 accounts by saying its family members.
13:55 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
As I said, you are right that this is *possible*.
But I'm gonna claim that of all deactivations where the user returns on another account in any shape or form, 99% of the time, those deactivations are unplanned, spontaneous actions made in frustration and without thinking ahead.
The people who might plan ahead in the way you are outlining are not the same people who are spontaneous and IMnotatallHO stupid enough to find themselves in a position where they actually need it
zantetsukenz said:
A person who knowingly wants to deactivate and make a new account who has made it before because it is clear that is the way to get around it
(for instance anny/_anny_)
(for instance anny/_anny_)
As I said, you are right that this is *possible*.
But I'm gonna claim that of all deactivations where the user returns on another account in any shape or form, 99% of the time, those deactivations are unplanned, spontaneous actions made in frustration and without thinking ahead.
The people who might plan ahead in the way you are outlining are not the same people who are spontaneous and IMnotatallHO stupid enough to find themselves in a position where they actually need it
14:02 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
That is the common practice, yes - not the rules though
I've requested clearer rules (and far more importantly, a more clear and consistent practice) on this point for a long time, but that's not gonna happen, so we'll just gonna have to settle for what we DO know: People are not banned for having multiple accounts. Like you say, occasionally people get banned for exploiting multiple accounts, but not for having the multiple accounts in the first place. Which is fine - just sad that the rules still state users are limited to a single account when common practice for years now have educated the users of the site to know otherwise.
In the end of the day, IMHO, this boils down to the fact that a rule about multiple accounts for the same user is every bit as hard to prove for funkypool as it is for the league runners.
And to get back to the point in hand, whether or not multiple accounts are allowed or not is really irrelevant to the league. If users want to break site rules on this point (if it were indeed strictly outlawed) they will manage to. There are all sorts of ways to get around such a rule.
Edited at 19:05 Thu 01/07/10 (BST)
dgeneratio said:
its only prohibited if you log in both at same time, nothing wrong with 2 accounts as long as you dont use it to up your rank or play friendlies with yourself.
long as you dont log into both at same time, there shouldn't be a problem really.
long as you dont log into both at same time, there shouldn't be a problem really.
That is the common practice, yes - not the rules though
I've requested clearer rules (and far more importantly, a more clear and consistent practice) on this point for a long time, but that's not gonna happen, so we'll just gonna have to settle for what we DO know: People are not banned for having multiple accounts. Like you say, occasionally people get banned for exploiting multiple accounts, but not for having the multiple accounts in the first place. Which is fine - just sad that the rules still state users are limited to a single account when common practice for years now have educated the users of the site to know otherwise.
In the end of the day, IMHO, this boils down to the fact that a rule about multiple accounts for the same user is every bit as hard to prove for funkypool as it is for the league runners.
And to get back to the point in hand, whether or not multiple accounts are allowed or not is really irrelevant to the league. If users want to break site rules on this point (if it were indeed strictly outlawed) they will manage to. There are all sorts of ways to get around such a rule.
Edited at 19:05 Thu 01/07/10 (BST)
14:14 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
I would disagree, there are more than 1 in 100 deactivations (of those where the user comes back) especially specific to clans
There are less than 200 people in clans atm and i know quite a few people that have deactivated, and most have been spontaneous but at least 4 or 5 i know have done it with another account, and thats just the people i know
There are less than 200 people in clans atm and i know quite a few people that have deactivated, and most have been spontaneous but at least 4 or 5 i know have done it with another account, and thats just the people i know
14:19 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
Well, regardless of the specific numbers, it doesn't really matter whether I'm right or wrong... Point remains that I see no way at all of preventing/stopping this effect no matter how much we might like to.
Never make a rule you cannot enforce in an informed, consistent and fair manner.
zantetsukenz said:
I would disagree, there are more than 1 in 100 deactivations (of those where the user comes back) especially specific to clans
There are less than 200 people in clans atm and i know quite a few people that have deactivated, and most have been spontaneous but at least 4 or 5 i know have done it with another account, and thats just the people i know
There are less than 200 people in clans atm and i know quite a few people that have deactivated, and most have been spontaneous but at least 4 or 5 i know have done it with another account, and thats just the people i know
Well, regardless of the specific numbers, it doesn't really matter whether I'm right or wrong... Point remains that I see no way at all of preventing/stopping this effect no matter how much we might like to.
Never make a rule you cannot enforce in an informed, consistent and fair manner.
14:28 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
If a rules needs to be improved, then it should be
14:31 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
Absolutely, and I never said otherwise.
Problem is that that is mutually exclusive with having rules you cannot enforce. Unenforceable rules is never ever an improvement, it's utterly bad, no matter how bad conditions you came from in the first place.
And sometimes, just sometimes, not saying it applies in this case mind you: What you have is as good as it's gonna get.
I'm not saying one should ever lightly accept that what you have is as good as it can get, but at the same time one needs to be open to the idea that this is in fact a possibility.
Just because there are loopholes and flaws in the rules doesn't mean there exists a way in which that can be amended. I'm all ears if someone can suggest a solution rather than just pointing our the weaknesses, but until then I fail to see a sensible way forward on this.
Edited at 19:34 Thu 01/07/10 (BST)
zantetsukenz said:
If a rules needs to be improved, then it should be
Absolutely, and I never said otherwise.
Problem is that that is mutually exclusive with having rules you cannot enforce. Unenforceable rules is never ever an improvement, it's utterly bad, no matter how bad conditions you came from in the first place.
And sometimes, just sometimes, not saying it applies in this case mind you: What you have is as good as it's gonna get.
I'm not saying one should ever lightly accept that what you have is as good as it can get, but at the same time one needs to be open to the idea that this is in fact a possibility.
Just because there are loopholes and flaws in the rules doesn't mean there exists a way in which that can be amended. I'm all ears if someone can suggest a solution rather than just pointing our the weaknesses, but until then I fail to see a sensible way forward on this.
Edited at 19:34 Thu 01/07/10 (BST)
14:33 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
But there are alternatives which are easy to enforce, which can be fairly and consistently enforced
14:35 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
Then by all means name them!
zantetsukenz said:
But there are alternatives which are easy to enforce, which can be fairly and consistently enforced
Then by all means name them!
14:37 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
And how would you tell "new people who join now" from "old people who deactivated their account"?
I agree that it might not necessarily be a problem to allow anyone into the league ahead of new seasons, other than this being a giant loophole for banned users to return.
qpounder said:
just polish the rule a bit so that actual new people to the site who join now can play in the league when it starts rather that 2 months if someone wants to join after it starts then the account has to be 2 month old easy
And how would you tell "new people who join now" from "old people who deactivated their account"?
I agree that it might not necessarily be a problem to allow anyone into the league ahead of new seasons, other than this being a giant loophole for banned users to return.
14:39 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
Lets see where this rule has flaws and if they can be improved, and possibly enforced
- presume new accounts means under 2 months or those who've not got rid of newbie tag
- suggested as there are reliable people (new and old) that are hit by the 2 months rule and there are people over 2 months not reliable which can get in
discuss
qpounder said:
new accounts can only join a clan and be eligable for the league pre season
Lets see where this rule has flaws and if they can be improved, and possibly enforced
- presume new accounts means under 2 months or those who've not got rid of newbie tag
- suggested as there are reliable people (new and old) that are hit by the 2 months rule and there are people over 2 months not reliable which can get in
discuss
14:40 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
only thing i can suggest is a league runner ask a moderator to keep an eye out on 2nd accounts through deactivations and make then wait 2 months from that point.
14:41 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
Still cant prove that its not a different person within the same household
dgeneratio said:
only thing i can suggest is a league runner ask a moderator to keep an eye out on 2nd accounts through deactivations and make then wait 2 months from that point.
Still cant prove that its not a different person within the same household
14:44 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
Unfortunately, even if they could share whatever data they like, there's only so much you can do based on an IP. It's poor evidence at best.
Nor relevant since funkypool staff cannot share staff-only data with regular users at all even if they wanted to.
dgeneratio said:
only thing i can suggest is a league runner ask a moderator to keep an eye out on 2nd accounts through deactivations and make then wait 2 months from that point.
Unfortunately, even if they could share whatever data they like, there's only so much you can do based on an IP. It's poor evidence at best.
Nor relevant since funkypool staff cannot share staff-only data with regular users at all even if they wanted to.
14:45 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
Still cant prove that its not a different person within the same household
zak's right, I've had the problem before with my brother and I sharing the same computer and him getting banned for them thinking it was me with two accounts, although he doesn't play much anymore
zantetsukenz said:
dgeneratio said:
only thing i can suggest is a league runner ask a moderator to keep an eye out on 2nd accounts through deactivations and make then wait 2 months from that point.
Still cant prove that its not a different person within the same household
zak's right, I've had the problem before with my brother and I sharing the same computer and him getting banned for them thinking it was me with two accounts, although he doesn't play much anymore
14:46 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
Its the other way round, league staff informing the site staff
No staff-only data would need to be shared, its just like reporting something to a mod/admin
janmb said:
Nor relevant since funkypool staff cannot share staff-only data with regular users at all even if they wanted to.
Its the other way round, league staff informing the site staff
No staff-only data would need to be shared, its just like reporting something to a mod/admin
14:48 Thu 1 Jul 10 (BST) [Link]
Lets see where this rule has flaws and if they can be improved, and possibly enforced
- presume new accounts means under 2 months or those who've not got rid of newbie tag
- suggested as there are reliable people (new and old) that are hit by the 2 months rule and there are people over 2 months not reliable which can get in
The main problem is the one I pointed out to qpounder in the post above.
Secondly, while it is hard to tell reliable players from the bad ones among the existing, older accounts, it's is even more impossible for new accounts where the player is not known at all.
In the end of the day, the way I see it, the simple way to deal with this is: If you want to play in the league, stick to one account and don't deactivate. If people want to mess around with deactivation/new accounts all the time that's none of my business and their choice, but I don't see why we need to accommodate that when it comes to the league.
When it comes to people who are entirely new to the site, I think it's a good policy to make them have a couple months experience before entering the league anyway...
zantetsukenz said:
qpounder said:
new accounts can only join a clan and be eligable for the league pre season
Lets see where this rule has flaws and if they can be improved, and possibly enforced
- presume new accounts means under 2 months or those who've not got rid of newbie tag
- suggested as there are reliable people (new and old) that are hit by the 2 months rule and there are people over 2 months not reliable which can get in
The main problem is the one I pointed out to qpounder in the post above.
Secondly, while it is hard to tell reliable players from the bad ones among the existing, older accounts, it's is even more impossible for new accounts where the player is not known at all.
In the end of the day, the way I see it, the simple way to deal with this is: If you want to play in the league, stick to one account and don't deactivate. If people want to mess around with deactivation/new accounts all the time that's none of my business and their choice, but I don't see why we need to accommodate that when it comes to the league.
When it comes to people who are entirely new to the site, I think it's a good policy to make them have a couple months experience before entering the league anyway...
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