France just beat NZ!!!

Anyone know what channel England vs Argentina is on!??? I can't seem to find a listing anywhere....

http://www.rfu.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/RFUHome.England_Detail/StoryID/22891

Not good news for Rugby fans

I've found somewhere to watch it - if anyone would like the link let me know via message and I will post it back!

Getting mauled up front, unsurprisingly! A lot of players need to get the finger out second half, shame to see Byrne go off! Adam Jones for Vickery, please! O' Gara for Stephen Jones if nothing is changing 10 minutes into second half. Bit better ball going forward and the Lions (O' Driscoll and Roberts in particular) can hurt them, as was evident from the try! Not over yet, c'mon Lions!

Sick, so disappointing! We're overly reliant on our backs, but I guess that's to be expected given our quality there, and our struggles up front! Jamie Roberts was an absolute joy to behold, how many line breaks did he make?! If Monye was a bit more clinical, we would have won! I thought Kearney was outstanding when he came on. O' Driscoll a bit quiet, but still turns up and creates something out of nothing now and again. Bowe didn't quite live up to expectations, but against Habana it's hardly easy. Stephen Jones was poor first half, superb second half. His handling is immense, the perfect foil for Roberts and O' Driscoll. Phillips was decent, easily our best option, and his try proved that. Heaslip and Wallace were anonymous, vastly outplayed by their opposite numbers. Croft was excellent, again a great call, someone who is well suited to the Lions strengths, knows how to be in the right place at the right time. O' Connell was poor, Wyn Jones not much better, again Matfield gave a masterclass in lock play. We won't mention Vickery...Mears was poor, Jenkins excellent...Adam Jones and Rees changed the game greatly and more than matched the Boks up front. Too many penalties cost us dear, ill discipline a worry. All in all I don't think we were completely outplayed like I thought we would, but the better team won. Plenty of positives though, and a better forward performance coupled with a few changes up front could see us come back strong next week!

I wouldn't be so quick to criticise Monye when looking at replays of the tackles made, not an awful lot the man could of done. Bit unlucky with the first one, second one, again, a great tackle.

Roberts was awsome again. Croft - point proven!

Vickery was out-cheated by both 'The Beast' and the ref, who was consistently another Bok player on the field in regards to scrummaging.

Mears has been throwing well all tournement, why not now?

Rees and Jones didn't change the game as such, more the Boks making their substitutions changing the game. The forwards will have to take a big long look at themselves. However as a team effort the Lions have got to be licking their lips, as they played awful and came within an inch of winning. We sort our rucking/srum/lineout and we can win with ease............

Anyone think the forwards go to ground too quickly? It seems that's where alot of turn-over ball kept coming from. I thought the backs done a wonderful job today and saved the forwards face by not getting a hammering, which after 40 minutes was looking on the cards!

Bowe had a hard job to do. I think he'll be much more settled next game and we'll see what he's made of.

I don't mean to criticize, I think he should have scored the second one, good tackle or not. I don't think you would see Bowe stopped from 5 yards out is what I'm getting at. I think some hard work on the set pieces over the week, and having an all-Welsh front row could see us beat them next week. Just watched some highlights...that Roberts-O' Driscoll partnership is an absolute dream, compliment each other brilliantly!

I thought Bowe was stopped 5 yards out.....

Either way I agree, he should of put it away. Then again O'Connol shouldn't have been penalised for hands in the ruck which gave SA an easy 3 points, would of left us a drop goal down and with the position to kick in the last 5 minutes. Case of could a would a should a!

Lets hope we learn from our mistakes and have an un-biased ref for the next big one. I'm impressed with the tries scored from the Lions though, some great phase play with lovely hands.

I fancy man of the tournement to go to either Roberts or Croft with Bowe and Byrne as outsiders. Two games to go with Roberts the clear favourite at the moment, but anything can happen in the two games.


Anyone see the high tackle on Hook?

And last nights game showed, why Harry Ellis, should never go near a Lions jersey again.

With the shocking performances of him and Blair, could be looking at a 5-2 bench split, with Williams and Hook the two backline players.

Kearney to the left wing if Byrne is fit, if not then Fitzgerald comes straight in. Team should look something like this (if Byrne is fit)

15: Byrne
14: Bowe
13: BOD
12: Roberts
11: Kearney
10: Jones
9: Phillips
8: Heaslip
7: Wallace (Williams will be more effective when S.A tire)
6: Croft
5: POC (C)
4: AWJ
3: Jones
2: Rees
1: Jenkins.

16: Mears
17: Vickery
18: Shaw
19: Williams
20: Powell
21: Williams
22: Hook


Heaslip needs to play better on the big stage, was massively dissapointed in him last week and his performance is a bit of a factor in the 5-2 bench split I think is best. Really hope the Lions consider it. Shaw was good when he came on last night, I personally would have Hines or O'Callaghan but Hines is cited and O'Callaghan played 80 minutes last night. That leaves us with Shaw, who might not last the 80 and never seems to deliver in big matches he is chosen to, so I think a 20 minute cameo is best from the big guy.
If Hines was not cited I'd start him ahead of AWJ with him moving to the bench.
You could then bring in O'Gara maybe instead of Powell with AWJ covering 4, 5, 6,8, keep Shaw. Gives the option of Hook or O'Gara and that could be vital depending on the way the games develops.

Lots of options, but I think the 5-2 bench split is the best as I would trust Hook and think he has proved himself.

And just incase someone things it's insane having Williams covering 9 and 11. He is more than capable, has done it for Wales in massive games very effectively and pretty much most of last night !!!

Edited at 09:50 Wed 24/06/09 (BST)

Mority of the team kinda picks itself again I guess, I'd love to see O' Callaghan in alongside O' Connell, in a similar vein to having an all-welsh front row, I hope this is the case. I'd also rather see Fitzgerald on the wing than Kearney, Fitzgerald is a whole lot more comfortable there, and is a better option than Kearney there imo. Otherwise it's fine. Ellis and O' Gara have no chance. Shane Williams just isn't good enough at the moment, huge pity that. Our back row is weak in comparison to the Boks - Heaslip has been average so far, when I expected him to be awesome. Hopefully, like you said Kris, he can put in a monster display on Saturday. Same with Wallace. I honestly think we will beat them on Saturday, we know how to get at them and where we can outplay them, it's just a matter of putting plan to practice. I fancy Bowe to bag himself a couple this weekend, show Habana how it's done

Only you would be silly enough for a comment like that. I think there were far worse players on the pitch!

I'm almost tempted to bet on Bowe running two in...

I agree that O'Gara, Ellis, S. Williams and Powell. Hugely disappointing from all of the mentioned.

To be fair, Ellis hasn't had game time, I assumed he'd turn up to the big game. I also feel Powell has become one dimensional in his play. S. Williams is half the man he was, don't really know why and O'Gara.... well I think I mentioned it months ago, I suppose I was right. However his kicking has been superb at times.

I don't agree with Kearney playing at all. Anyone other than him. Powell shouldn't even make the bench IMHO. And Mears should be starting - his throwing will be better.

Lets hope we get a consistant ref who knows the difference between legal/illegal rucking/scrummaging.

I just want the Lions to stay on their feet when coming into contact. Support needs to be quicker at the ruck and the first tackler needs to do exactly that.

I'm expecting a win on Saturday. More ball in hand and less kicking!


Edited at 19:15 Wed 24/06/09 (BST)

Don't know why I bother sometimes. To be shot down like that. Only me? From what I have seen the last 24 hours, only you don't agree ! Even Stuart bloody Barnes thinks he is cack.

Mears? He was half the reason for the shocking set piece display last Saturday. How can you start him, when Rees comes on and sorts it out along with Adma Jones, it's just crazy talk and very bias.

I'm pretty sure Ellis has played more minutes than any other scrum half on tour.

Williams was one of the best players on that field, along with Powell. Powell's game has developed immensly this tour, he is doing so much more dirty work it is a real joy to see and I'm thrilled that he has got his head down, realised it, taken the criticism on the chin and is becoming more of an all round 8. Still would start Heaslip though.

And yes fingers crossed for a better ref, but we will have a better front row hopefully to avoid the problems we had last week.


Anyway, I will go and discuss somewhere else as I don't want a personal debate, just a general rugby debate

This is a rugby debate....

I called your comment silly because of how you put it. Saying Ellis shouldn't play on Saturday is fine. However to say he shouldn't wear a Lions jersy again is silly. Form comes and goes, you should know that, look at S. Williams!


I don't know what games you've been watching, but Powell and S. Williams have been poor.

Who's this new player Keith Earls?


I hear Payne is in with a chance of making the bench too....


I think Hook's in with a shout in the team. He's not been too bad at all, seems he's back to running and his kicking game is good.


Edited at 22:09 Wed 24/06/09 (BST)

R Kearney (Leinster and Ireland)
T Bowe (Ospreys and Ireland),
B O'Driscoll (Leinster and Ireland),
J Roberts (Cardiff Blues and Wales),
L Fitzgerald (Leinster and Ireland);
S Jones (Scarlets and Wales),
M Phillips (Ospreys and Wales);
G Jenkins (Cardiff Blues and Wales),
M Rees (Scarlets and Wales),
A Jones (Ospreys and Wales),
S Shaw (Wasps and England),
P O'Connell (Munster and Ireland, capt),
T Croft (Leicester and England),
D Wallace (Munster and Ireland),
J Heaslip (Leinster and Ireland).
Replacements: R Ford (Edinburgh and Scotland), A Sheridan (Sale Sharks and England), A-W Jones (Ospreys and Wales), M Williams (Cardiff Blues and Wales), H Ellis (Leicester and England), R O'Gara (Munster and Ireland), S Williams (Ospreys and Wales).

No Hook or Monye. Bit of a knee jerk reaction, I think the defence will suffer for this. Can't believe S. Williams has made the bench. Ridiculous.

And nor has O' Callaghan, though I'm glad to see Shaw in there for AWJ. Pity Byrne's injured, Kearney's an adequate replacement though. That back line is still outstanding and could win us the game given decent ball!

I still can't help but feel Geordan Murphy is still an awsome back. I know Ireland are choosing youth - but Murphy has been outstanding all season. Big shame about Byrne, he's one of, if not the best, full back in the world and is a big loss. Lets hope Kearney performs.

I think your right. Decent ball will give us the win!

Anyone watch New Zealand/Italy earlier? How ordinary were the All Blacks?! Italy dominated that game for 60 minutes, if they had more than one decent back they could have opened the AB's up and come even closer! Australia dominated their game against France, comfortable win! But now the big one, less than half an hour to go, so excited

Can't put into words how bitterly disappointed I am, was so looking forward to the ultimate showdown next Saturday, now it's just meaningless. So many ifs and buts, not even gonna go there

Never have I been so glad to be wrong! Awsome display from the Lions. Lacking in the second half, but somehting to be proud of!


Kearney and Shaw were a revalation! Ultimatley it was the Bench that cost us...


I'm still looking forward to next week. It'll be worth a watch!