I totally agree Stu mate, has nothing to do with which team its more the players they play alongside, the Captain and the comoradary the players have settled in to/with.

The better players wont leave the top 2 sides as they want to win nowt wrong with that, Uprising have built up through many seasons to get to where they are now as a unit, ripping that apart due to 'numbers' is not the way to go about it.

There was a problem with 10 points for the bonus as like the FBL it meant an unbeaten team would have lost the league which is a joke. So to change puts fcl backwards and makes it as stupid as current fbl which hopefully it never will be as it has always been the best league for a reason.

As for the individual game scenario, for some reason you think it would be harder to beat a top team, not sure how you can think this. If you are playing SS it is quite normal for Seb and Pete to win by 12 or 13 points each so you are over 20 points behind with 6 games to play. If it was individual games they would be 2-0 up and you have six games left against there other players who are probably not of the same standard as those 2 and you are more than likely to get a result against so if you win 4 of the remaining 6 games you earn a draw for your clan, which is far more likely than getting a draw from being 20 points behind.

Reducing clan sizes wouldnt be a great idea. The reason why we dont have more clans than we have its cause not many people like to dedicate their time to a clan, not because they cant find players. Like Stu said its not that hard to find 16 players to fill a clan.

We have clans with 12 players in snooker and there are more defaults there, moreover considering that theres only one league and a cup. So i see more defaults coming if clan sizes are reduced.

Anyway thats only my modest opinion

Just for the record: No one has said they are reducing the clan size, it were me who assumed it could be implemented unfortunately.

Just thought I'd clarify that point as I'm 100% honest.

What is wrong with an unbeaten team not winning the league?

Am I the only one who doesn't understand that argument? :S

If the format is a point a frame then it is completely irrelevant if you lose or win a game. It's a test of points accumulated over the whole season.

At the moment the system is an 'inbetween' system - I'd like us to commit to one side. Bonus points sacrifice the integrity of the format.


The ironic thing is that this system would actually cater more for the 'lesser' teams by making each match worth the same amount of points.

The league is either a test of a squad's depth and who has the best 'match squad' where winning and losing games actually makes a difference (by giving so many points for a win, so many for a draw etc.) - or the league is a test of the squads overall quality by giving a point a frame (number of frames won over a season).

People need to stop considering an unbeaten team not winning the league when winning or losing games has nothing to do with the format...

If you are playing games against other teams in a league format, a team who beats all others should win the league. That is a simple formula that applies to all leagues where you compete against others. The ability to beat teams by as many points as possible is not an achievement if you cannot beat your closest rivals in the individual game. FBL has been a farce for a couple of seasons now, by all means change FCL to the a similar format as it will make my decision easier for what to do next season

Not if the format isn't dependent on winning games - It is completely irrelevant. There is nothing wrong with that, it is a legitimate format.

All I'm proposing is that we try and incorporate the two ways of doing things into either league.

That way we get two contrasting formats, both ways of looking at things are catered for and the clan leagues would regain a lot of integrity.

That's been my arguement all along, 2 ways to look at it,
decide it by frame count throughout the season,
or decide it by team fixture wins (or individual fixture wins, not much difference, they both leave frames uncounted)

A bonus of 10 or 20 (while counting every frame) is a compromise of the 2 beliefs, (20 though I think is in favor of team fixture wins)

Team fixture wins already decide the cup, let frame count decide the league.

Edited at 15:13 Mon 30/12/13 (GMT)

Why are we playing games against all clans in competition if it is not dependant on winning games. FBL has been a joke for last 2 seasons and FCL is going to go the same way, if we have a league format where a clan beats all others and does not win the league. Because another clan win games by 15-0 more often, wow well done them. There is no achievement in whooping players by large margins. There is an achievement in beating all other clans in the league and if you achieve it you should always be champions, like any other league. You have defaults which end up causing problems which has been shown in previous seasons if you use the frame massing format as well. There is a format where none of these other factors need to be an issue yet players prefer a format where they can thrash other players 15-0 as it gives them some sort of achievement. That one game should mean no more than the other 7 games in the fixture. They should all have equal importance.

But it is dependant on winning games either way you go. Your way sees fixtures as games, my way sees frames as games.
I think counting frames more accurately points out the best clan.
Only the best players can sometimes get a 15-0, shouldn't the clan with the best players win the league?

The format isn't dependent on winning games. It is dependent on winning frames....

Not sure if this has been suggested already havent read through ,but why not score 2 bonus points per player win, 1 each for a draw , then possibly a 4 overall point win bonus,which still gives a possible maximum total of 20 bonus points per fixture .

Edited at 16:02 Mon 30/12/13 (GMT)

That would be another compromise, would leave fixture wins to rule the cup, and frame count giving a compromise in the league. Doesn't equally cater to both beliefs, but I do prefer it over a 20 point bonus straight out.

I like what pirate suggested, one league each way.
Have one league somewhere that counts frames without a compromise. Have another that only counts fixture wins (again though, the cup's already there doing that).

Edited at 16:13 Mon 30/12/13 (GMT)

If you find glory out of winning 15-0, good luck to you. If you would take any pleasure out of winning a league where you score more frames yet cannot beat the opposition again good luck to you.

I know i won FBL last season and i took no satisfaction out of it. I love winning but if like last season SS beat us and are unbeaten yet the pros win the league. The winning of that league means nothing to me and is a joke and i said then that SS were the rightful winners it is only the joke league format that prevented it. Looks like this is also going to happen again this season, i hope not as it will be another farce and show again why FBL format doesn't work. Anyone who has played competitive sport in any league will know that a team who wins all their games should win the league.

If FCL want to create a similar event, the new runners will ruin the best clan event on here.

Why is everyone so scared that all games were to have equal standing? Oh yes that format goes against the top teams as the ability to whoop players is removed and you need a full team of 8 players to gain you the result. And even the top clans have only got 2 or 3 of these players so will need to rely on 4 or 5 who could easily slip up against a number of players on here.

The fbl counts frames (with a compromising bonus for fixture wins), not team fixtures wins (or "games" as you call them). Noone went unbeaten in that format, everyone lost frames. Pro's won the most frames and deserved to win, fixture wins are irrelevent.
FCL's the best because it's the most accurate, the long format, the counting of all those frames. If it stopped counting frames it would lose accuracy.
You say that your idea goes against the top teams. You admit then that your way isn't as accurate, that the best team may not win.

Edited at 16:29 Mon 30/12/13 (GMT)

I like what pirate suggested, one league each way.
Have one league somewhere that counts frames without a compromise. Have another that only counts fixture wins (again though, the cup's already there doing that). The superleague does that too, with its knockout round at the end, it ends up decided by one team fixture, really no different in the end than a cup match.

Just one league, please, that's decided by frames alone (currently there isn't one).

Edited at 19:22 Mon 30/12/13 (GMT)

If the other team has performed that much better in other games then they are deservedly the champions, winning every game doesn't make you the best team automatically in my opinion.

In your scenario with Seb and Pete that would lead to match fixing, we would put the likes of davybaumers against their weaker players and sacrifice Ash against Seb (love you Ash )
It's the obvious thing for every team to do but wouldn't be what we would want from a league.

I do see what you are trying to achieve with less on the superstars scores

Why cant a match be automatically won when say 12 points is attained? just a thought?

Cheers ooo_u_tap_2, i'll beat Seb lol

Love how this becomes an issue when all the time FCL has been popular and enjoyed by the people moaning we have had exactly the same scoring system.
It works perfectly with a 10 point bonus, every frame matters and you still get rewarded for winning your matches.
People need to get away from it being a compromise and look at all the pros and cons for the systems because the 'compromise' one that has been in place for years has no cons and loads of pros yet you want to replace it with seriously flawed systems.

But for 2 (or 3?, not sure) seasons, it's been a bonus of 20. Also I wasn't here when it started, but I believe I was told that at one time it had no bonus points.
Even with a bonus of 10, it is made possible for a team to win the league, without having won the most frames throughout the season. When that happens, every frame won't count, and I'll feel like keith does about the FBL last season, like the best team didn't win, that a less than perfect scoring format got in the way.

Edited at 19:10 Mon 30/12/13 (GMT)