At the end of the day it comes down to whether we want the players who play fairly and by the rules to have the best chance or whether we want people who 'deliberately foul' to gain an advantage. The game doesn't come up with the message 'tactical shot' when these shots are played it comes up with something like 'foul wrong ball hit' and as such commiting a foul should place that player at a disadvantage and the person coming to the table should be able to feel that they are in with a better, not worse, chance of winning the game!

At the moment, those two are not two things to choose between - they are on the contrary one and the same.

For the two to be any different and a matter of choice, we need to first change the rules for 8 ball. (which I wouldn't be opposed to at all)

Errm one thing I do not get, why do people consider it is ok to deliberately foul in 9 ball i.e. pot the 9 when its over the pocket; would this not be the equivalent to the deliberate foul rule in 8 ball?

Because it is ok.

If I think im going to foul and leave an easy combation, I'm just going to knock the 9 on a cushion or something.

Well within the rules.

Edited at 11:50 Sun 11/05/08 (BST)

The rules imo are all fine.

I think folk should stop moaning about them and learn to use them to their advantage.

Edited at 11:51 Sun 11/05/08 (BST)

So if its ok there why isn't it in 8 ball? I thought most of the general rules were the same =S

They should be.

I would be totally against the changing of the current 8ball rules, in my opinion this one single rule defines the game almost, it gives another dimention to the game where players must think outside the box, it makes players think maybe 2 shots ahead for themselves but also perhaps a shot ahead for their opponent, i cant really explain a situation, but the top players in this game will be able to back me up on this. If the rule was changed, then in my opinion 8ball us would mearly change to a glorified 8ball uk. I would be willing to bet almost anything that there is not one player in the top 10 at this game that has not played a DF at some stage, i certainly do it a lot and perhaps more than most, I play DF's in all the game types at some stage if they are needed. As was said above it is not breaking the rules it is simply using them to your advantage.

It is ok in 8ball too.

My thoughts exactly smithy.

I could not diasagree more Smihbit and Colins. It is called a foul because it is against the rules. It deserves to be punished more fully so that fouling is discouraged and the art of playing non foul shots then becomes the aim of the game. I think its a *cheats* way out and one which should definitely be discouraged!

Well then it looks like myself and probably the top 10?20?40? players are *cheats*. but thats your opinion, anyone else think we're cheats?

Awwww I'm a cheat

Tactics would become too easy without deliberate foul.

Just block two pockets and game is yours.

Either need to have the deliberate foul or that if you pot your ball and an opponents ball in same shot (combo shot) then that is legal.

Edited at 13:37 Sun 11/05/08 (BST)

OOOO touchy touchy .. mummy's apron is the place for you two!

Sportsmen/women play fair and you can look at golf or snooker as games that epitomise and embody that characterestic! Win at all costs isn't the attitude of a sporstman/ women and if being in the top 10 or 20 / 40 etc makes that attitude worthwhile then EXCUSE ME!!

Healthy discussion is always worthwhile, games evolve/ rules change and the cream of the crop are those who can win without having to foul to achieve that objective in my view

Edited at 13:37 Sun 11/05/08 (BST)

Right, been trying not to but if you'd have seen real pool at a high level you would know that the deliberate foul is a very acceptable and often used shot.

Yeah but I thought that pool rules stated after 3 attempts by each player not to give away a game by failing to disturb the unpottable balls, a ref would re-rack the balls and the original player will break over again!

In FP's case this doesn't happen and it makes for a ruined game.

hmmm well i cannot comment on US games in real life as ive never played them in competition, but in uk 8ball DF's are completely legal and knowing when and how to play them is as much a part of the game as potting and positional play is.

Winning at all costs? hmmm not sure where you got that from, I like to win, I'll certainly try my best to win a game as will everyone else on this site im sure. And to be honest I would consider myself a very sporting person as anyone that has ever played me will tell you.

Are we not into two different areas now? The deliberate foul for tactical reasons to create a winning position or a better defensive position is perfectly reasonable and justified. Anyone is free to do it if they want to or can.

Forgive me if i got the wrong end of this but didnt the thread start of with the scenario where player one maybe has his last ball(s) over the pocket, player 2 cannot pot his own so places it in a blocking position where player 1 can no longer hit his own ball. This can sometimes lead to the stalemate position where players deliberately foul until one person either gives in or both dq. Thats the scenario that needs some thought as to how it can be resolved in its fairest way. Player 1 cannot hit his ball at all so has no shot on and player 2 has skillfully avoided a certain defeat but now also has no shot on (usually anyway).

Anyone know what the real 8 ball rules are for that scenario? Doesnt the referee usually call the rerack?

Edited at 13:53 Sun 11/05/08 (BST)

I posted the rules re the rerack as I think they stand anyhow... Arcade_fire.