After a deliberate foul to prevent your opponent from potting their last ball i.e when snookered you tap their ball up against yours and make no attempt to get out of snooker, should result in a free table. this would help prevent what is the equivalent IMHO of cheating.

I see your point Grae.

But i don't think there is an actual rule that prevents deliberate fouls unfortunately.

But adding a free table would break the point in actually using that tactic.

Cheating? i'm not so sure.

No where near cheating. Just using the rules to your advantage.

i admit i have often just potted the white so they can't pot there last ball

it's called having a cake and keeping it lol

How would the system know it was a deliberate foul?

There is a way that if a player does that you can take advantage of it and usually win ( only on the us games).

I will say openly say i have done it before, but i think it can be quite ennoying.

I think most players do it at times (particularly the more tactical players) and as it's not classed as cheating, there's technically no reason why they shouldn't. Deliberate fouls are played not only to block final shots, but all through US 8 games, for pocket-covering, positional reasons etc.

I agree that the system couldn't differentiate between fouls and deliberate fouls, but a blanket free table rule, for any foul on US - deliberate or not, would virtually stop players deliberately fouling at a stroke, and I don't think it would spoil the game in any way.

Edited at 16:09 Fri 9/05/08 (BST)

Maybe I wasn't clear but I think that a free table after any foul is required so that the player coming to the table after their opponent has fouled actually has the advantage and not the other way round!

oh i see yea thts sounds good

Stupid question inc: How do you define "free table"?

I don't really have any strong feelings either way about this, but I see where you're coming from for sure.

It is really a simple question of what the game should be. As long as people play according to the current rules, they shouldn't be punished for it either.

If you want free table in the cases you have in mind - the rules for 8 ball need to be updated first - with the technical implementation coming as a result of that.

Then again this is really hard to program too. How do you, on a completely non-emotional, programming level distinguish a normal vs. a deliberate/bad foul? Not trivial at all.

(and yes, free table always would be simple enough to implement, although I still need a definition of what that is)

Edited at 17:41 Fri 9/05/08 (BST)

I agree with with what's been said here. It can be a great skill in realising that the only way to save a game occasionally is to force a stalemate.
The problem at the moment is then in a tournament match someone either has to deliberately foul and invariably then lose/concede the game or else both players will be dq'd. Not convinced that a free ball/table would always reward the right player but it would be a way of resolving the problem and everyone would obviously know the rules from the start.

The fairer solution in my opinion would be initiating a re-rack but not sure if there would be a simple of way of doing this. Just thinking off the top of my head if each player fouled say five (ten, or any number you want) times in succession could this lead to the game being automatically restarted thereby not unfairly affecting either player.

As I say, not really thought the idea through so feel free to shoot it down

Edited at 17:56 Fri 9/05/08 (BST)

Wouldn't a re-rack be an even worse problem time-wise in tournies?

Maybe - not sure - these types of games are quite rare in my experience and tend to be played by the more skilled players as mentioned above. For them, 22 ish minutes ought to be more than enough time to get the extra one in. It might even speed a few slow players up lol. Playing the sort of tactics that started this thread are a choice you make - if you try them then you have to accept dq'ing is a possibility anyway. Just seems like it strikes a fair balance in rewarding what can be highly skilled tactical play without either player having to concede needlessly.

Edited at 22:15 Fri 9/05/08 (BST)

Deliberate fouls have won me many a game

I do agree that a free table would be a lot better than spending twenty minutes both knocking the white in the pocket or whatever though.....

What does a free table mean? Using any ball as the one you need?

Does it not mean you can hit any ball with the white, and also pot any ball?

Thats what Grae said and I totally agree, as you know Jan lol.

Players who play 'tactical' (a deliberate foul) in my books see that as only way to win versus you. I've seen many 'good' players do it and I just dont see the point. I feel it ruins the game.

What I dont like also, is when people deliberately taps your balls into a less favourable position, with that being the sole intent. Thats bad sportsmanship.

I'm not sure I see it as bad sportsmanship exactly, because it's not against the rules and it's just tactical play.

But it causes bad feeling, and there's no way playing a foul shot should give the fouler an advantage, so I think the free table rule after fouls would make the game much fairer.

wow, how did miss that lol

Guess it was the weird quoting that lost me lol - thanks for pointing it out Lisa - and thanks to war for the good explanation

On the latter I tend to agree, but in general it is what martin_blank said - people who play by the rules are per def playing in a way that should never be considered bad sportsmanship.

And it's not that black and white Lisa - people who foul on you may not see that as the only way to win, or even necessary at all - but they DO see it as the BEST, most likely way to win.

But in either case, a free table would strongly discourage this behaviour - IF that's what we want the game to be. Either way is perfectly ok with me, I adapt to whatever the ruleset is in this case.