Once more rugby shows how it can never match football for out and out entertainment. Forget all the rubbish that goes with football - the overpaid players, monetary excesses, some mindless fans etc - for pure gameplay and watchability nothing comes close!

Watch almost any football match at any level and you will see someone do something that makes you go 'wow' - very rare to say the same about rugby.

the swansea - fulham game was more entertaining by far than both internationals today put together!!

anyway congrats to wales for scoring more points than england even though england outscored wales 2-1 in the actual objective of the game!!!

when's the next football match on? anyone??!!

Number 1, eveyrone is entitled to have a preference, I for one see Football a joke, packed with hooligans, nancy boys, and way to much money for it's own good. But you don't see me coming over to the football thread spouting rubbish.

I'm not going any further into the rugby vs football debate, just go meet some rugby players, compare them to football players, make an opinion and have an open mind.

Scoring more tries than your opponent is not the objective of the game, and would advice that you most certainly go find the next football match, not the next rugby match

Rubbish comeback from the Welsh prospective me thinks.

And how were the two games boring Chris, they came down to the wire.

And if you had not noticed Sporting, I did say we did play well, we were unlucky with some of the officiating. And if you watched the game, Wales were as culprable as England in most areas, just that England got spotted, whereas Wales never seemed to. I agree with the sin bins that England got, but Wales got away with two sin bins. The referee was quick to find the yellow card with England, yet lost it when Wales did something.

Watch the game again, I will do so when I'm not so worked up in the moment to try and see the English view, you do so to see the Welsh view. And who knows, we might both see the others views.

I still think your insane coming up with those views, yes Wales should have had ONE yellow England could have had 5 -10. You punched above your weight, slowed the ball down and showed great guts, that's what made it a close game, not the ref.. Why you would think Wales would try to slow the ball down beggers belief

I never said Wales tried to slow the ball down, although they did in the last 10 minutes, was it Shanklin that gave that penalty away late on, we were on the front foot and may have gone over to set up a grandstand finish.

And I'd like to see the other 3-7 sin bin offences we did on the Welsh.

Also, England have had, I think, 15 yellow cards in their last 6 games, says it all. Typical 'it was the refs fault' excuse

Is a well known fact, that South Africans and Australians hate us English, they even admitted it in the last world cup, so to have them refereeing our games is dodgy and then ping us for nothing sometimes, give the opposition a penalty for something minute, in comparison to something blantant like taking someone out in the air (Lee Byrne)

sorry i thought it was a debate on the game of rugby which like any sport is about entertainment value

in my opinion (which is just that) the two do not compare and today supported that opinion

going to the wire does not necessarily make for entertainment although it can improve what it

and i didnt say the objective of the game was to score more tries than your oponents if you actually read carefully - the objective of the game though is to cross your opponents line and score a try - penalties and drop kicks only come when you are stopped from doing that!!

Watch the game, your tactic was to slow the ball down, even your coach said that for crying out loud. I live and breath rugby, I don't just watch the flashy stuff, if you couldn't see England slowing the ball down all the time, then you need to watch it again ! Slowing the ball down is a yellow card offence, that's where those cards I mention should have come from.

Also, watch the Wales VS England games of the last 12 months, Wales would not want to the slow the damn ball down, have you watched them play? Where as England, well, lets just say THEY DO!

England played more rugby than I have seen for ages, but that's only due to them being very negative and dirty as a tactic, which gave them the oppurtunity to do so.

If Wales had a good day, they could have run in lots of tries, surely you could see that?

The better team deserved it, a different ref would not have changed the outcome of that game !

"england outscored wales 2-1 in the actual objective of the game!!! " - You sure you aint saying that? lol

Penalties don't stop people scoring a try, they can choose to go for the try again, but no, they will usually take the 3 points, to get points, which believe it or not is the objective, not scoring a try.

Drop goals can be a tactic, take England for example, it's a massive factor of their game, the reason is it gets them points, to complete the objective of the game which is to score more POINTS than your opponent.

You're allowed to slow the ball down to some extent and I know you are not allowed to slow the ball down too much. And I also know Johnno said that was a tactic we were going to use.

There is a way of legally slowing the ball down though and an illegal way of slowing the ball down.

And did you not see the last 10 minutes when Wales were slowing the ball down and also taking 30 seconds or somet stupid for a simple kick? In football, we call that time-wasting, a yellow card offence.

And I won't get on the objection of the game being that as if it was about scoring tries, we may not have won the World Cup in 2003, for us to be better as an attacking unit, we could really do with Johnny Wilkinson back. Bad that we seem to rely sooo much on one person.

I will say Wales may have played the better rugby than England, but tactics like slowing the ball down is against the better teams and unfortunately we aren't anywhere near the same team that we were 5 years ago, we've slipped down the rankings somewhat and need some more players to come through.

But one last thing, our U20s won, so

Yes you're right Wales did take an age, but Wales taking all the time given to take a kick out etc.. is not illegal, if they take longer than the time given then it is !

England illegaly slowed the ball down, hence Wales being so crap, fair play to England for that.

I just think it's ridiculous to even hint that England lost this due to ref, and should have won the game if it wasn't for the ref. They could have won but that would have been the 'rugby villain' winning, but like I said, they nearly did and that is fair play to them.

That to me is also what makes the Welsh performance so much better, they would never have won that game 18 months ago, but did grind it out today.

That's it, no more senior rugby, 2 out of 2 wins for the U20s

The future is bright for English rugby

yep im sure what i meant mate thanks - the aim of the gameplay of rugby is to play to score a try

its like basketball - the 'aim' of that game (ie the way its designed to be played) is to score a basket. However you can score more baskets than your opponents and yet still lose the game

you win matches by scoring more points (through all methods) than your opponents - and i'm not disagreeing that as in any sport the aim of the match is to win

they are two different things though in sports like that so shouldnt be confused - unlike football etc where the sole aim of the game is to score a goal and the team that achieves that the most wins the game (eg just one aim)

Not it's not !

Some teams don't see scoring a try as the aim of the game, some see getting parity in set-piece and getting 3 points and keep the scoreboard ticking over. (England on a fair few occasions, Scotland mainly now)

Others may see damage limitation and not conceding to many tries as their objective, not aiming to score tries as that may leave the door open for others to score lots of tries for themselves Get it?

You're very welcome for the reminder on what you posted, and the lesson, seen as it's your first, is free of charge

no lessons required though actually since i played rugby at a high level (with the injuries to prove it) for several years

shame youre missing the point - nevermind - i'll leave you to it now

for the record i think wales are the easily the best team in the 6 nations this year - bringing it back onto the thread for you to carry on with

Edited by forum moderator sporting, at 22:09 Sat 14/02/09 (GMT)

My name is Kris, as you should well know by now.

Thanks for the compliment on Wales.

Sorry for missing the point, I just go by what I read, and that is how I read it.

Biased.

Dispicable.

Unwarrented.

Short sighted.

The ref should of gone to specsavers.

Not gonna get in to the ins and outs of who should of won and who shouldn't of. Am just shocked that England are given two yellow cards for minor things yet the ref doesn't follow it up at the other end of the pitch. I'm a very dissapointed fan of rugby today.

I think both England and Scotland were both let down today!


I probably won't post on here for a bit, the ref really has upset me this time, I almost wished for Alain Roland............(and his Aussie mate)

Was expecting my name to be below that list

Watching the highlights, the ref did lean more toward us, maybe because Johnson said he is planning on playing dirty and slowing the ball down and awful lot to stop Wales playing. It was probably in Kaplan mind before kick-off

Surely Ireland are in with a chance if our victory over France last week is anything to go by? You sound like someone mouthing off about something he knows nothing about.