yep

12x16 = 192

^ jeez

another idea i came up with on snooker (sorry lee ) is that if someone concedes the match and in the end that conceded frame is only one left the unaffected clan will get half the no defaults bonus (meaning 5 points).

seem fair?

If someone concedes and refuses to play you shoukd get all points as it is not your fault. << Just my opinion.

You should do away with default bonus points, I think they are unfair, clans winning the defaults are losing out on bonus points at the fault of their opponents, the clan winning the defaults can put in just as much work and sometimes more to get games played as a team with no defaults but they get nothing.
I say you need to turn it round and instead of rewarding for no defaults you penalise for losing defaults, only losers then are the ones at fault.

One way to penalise could be to work out the default score, decide who the loser is then deduct 5 or 10 points from either their clans fixture result which could then affect the win bonus due to losing because of the deduction or from their league total points which wont affect any other bonus points.

I just feel this needs looked at because at the moment clans are losing out on default bonus points due to no fault of their own.

Edited at 13:01 Fri 09/09/11 (BST)

only fault i can see if if one of 2 things

- both been equally active but missing each other
- both made no effort, no activity etc

I agree with ab_rfc.

For your 2 points James if they are missing each other the captain can swap fixtures, and if both made no effort they should have been subbed out for someone who is going to make an effort otherwise both should lose points.

i would say that for no effort but why punish those who generally make an effort?

wouldn't be players fault if captains won't sub out for instance unless the player said to the captain don't sub me out.

i agree in principle though but only those who make almost no effort.

This wouldn't punish those that make an effort. If someone is trying to get a match played then either it gets played, or they get swapped for someone who is online at the same time, or the opponent who isn't trying gets subbed out, or the opponent gets penalised in defaults.

If both clans make equal effort then that is neither players/clans fault that the game went unplayed - which would be reflected in the default score, if both are lacking activity - then you punish both

Ab's idea would only be useful in a situation where one player made all the effort. In a situation where both try equally but one player nudges it by a couple of hours playing time giving an 8-7 score it would be unfair to penalise 5 points for that.

A suggestion would be a penalty given in ratio with the score, for example an 8-7 score would incur no penalty, 9-6 a 1 point penalty, 10-5 a 2 point penalty and so on.

that could work for snooker as its 6 points per frame but pool has 15 so double it and could work.

- both been equally active but missing each other

ok so if both are equally active why have they not arranged a time to play or if times didn't suit inform their captains so other arrangements could be made, sorry but both equally active but miss each other is no excuse for a default. if subs are not used in this sort of case you'll find its because captains are thinking their player has done enough to win the default.

- both made no effort, no activity etc,

simple, you penalise both, they don't deserve any points from the default itself nevermind bonus points.

Do you all agree that clans are losing out on default bonus points due to their opponents fault ?

Yep

thanks for clearing it up ab just used those as an example.

also what you think about penalty points for not handing teamlists in on time?

Like ab's idea but I would pair it with the default scores not having to add up to 15 and default scores of 7 or below getting a 10 point penalty for the team.

so if neither team makes much effort they could end up with 3-2 scoreline and both lose 10 points off the total...much harsher punishment than current.
In a normal situation where one team at least has put in a decent amount of effort they aren't punished.

Don't agree with penalty points for not handing in team lists, if they don't hand them in just use the ones from the previous fixtures, thats what used to happen.

okies.

yep lee, big difference if ab's idea comes into play, lets see what majority think.

- both been equally active but missing each other

Just want to add to this point, if a game goes to default its always the fault of someone, as I've said many times, clans have up to 15 players meaning 7 subs per fixture, captains should have to have a very good reason for not using subs, sitting back thinking you'll win the default is wrong, I say use your subs and go earn your points.

Edited at 14:26 Fri 09/09/11 (BST)

Main problem with this is once a match has started no subs can be used.

lets get on the subject of unfinished matches lol

The league need to put the foot down here, fixtures should only be started if both players intend playing untill its finished, no excuses like im playing bad can we carry on later or I need to go eat, arrange to start after you've eaten, if a fixture doesn't get completed the league runners need to look at why, if its because someone left because they were losing badly they shouldn't be in the league, who wants to play someone knowing they could leave if they are losing badly.

If you don't have the time to start and complete a fixture leave it for someone that does.