Ahem, 2 shots(uk style)?

usually 'the deadlock' would be easily solved by this (with the ability to move the white back to behind the baulk line if needed to)

That is the only way guaranteed to avoid the opponent being disadvantaged (ball in hand just leaves a constant stream of deliberate fouls)

Been in many situations where any sort of shot (even a deliberate foul) involves the moving of the balls however slight but none the less enough to make a difference to the position of the game. To simply give a ball in hand to an opponent so they have to do something from that position would have been an easy and preferable option, but one that should never exist.

Time out shots followed by ONLY ball in hand simply removes one problem/complaint to be replaced by another.

Random shots exist to make sure there is a shot for an opponent to respond to instead of the opponent just having 2 (which is a foul when theres no carry)

But surely this is the real root of the issue which caused this thread (and those of it's nature in the past) in the first place, and what nobody as yet has tried to explain which is why so many of us find the viewpoint hard to understand.

What is the difference?

Whether a shot is played carefully by a player, randomly by a player, or randomly by a computer, to me, as the opponent, it makes not one blind bit of difference as I am still left with the same shot/position at the end of the day.

It the player themselves had played the same shot, then that would be fair, because they themselves have made the shot.

However, they ran out of time to take their shot. This is the part that makes it unfair. They had their 20 seconds to decide, and they didn't think in time. Therefore, they should be punished for lack of decision, not rewarded by leaving me an unpottable black.

What makes this game fun is playing against another human, pinning each others skills against each other. If I wanted to play a computer I would buy a game for the xbox, PS3, Wii, whatever console I would happen to have in my house.

i know this isn't pool but once my mate on carom on snooks got a random shot twice (separate games) and scored, for those of you who dont know how to play, say for example your yellow, you have to hit the white/red (red always first on break) then hit 3 cushions and hit the other colour without hitting the 1st one.

when i saw this i just laughed, but on 9 ball once in speed tournie my opponent got a random and completely fluked a combo from an impossible place and won the game. i got annoyed about this, yes there are more tournaments but i just hate it when people fluke in tournaments, dont mind in friendly's. when i fluke in a tournament im not happy at all because i dont deserve to win.

like yesterday i was playing someone in a league match i fluked 2 stripes in 8 ball US and got snookered on black for runout but i was happy i got snookered because i didnt deserve the runout.

i can see sides from both parties but i sort of got to agree with jan and yoda, a simple pass back option (what i mentioned earlier) would be better than this random shot malarkey.

rant over.

I think this illustrates the problem well. You need to break down whats happening, as you are including yourself as a relevant factor in your opponents issue.

They run out of time, for whatever reason, so are punished by not getting to take their shot.

That is where the time limit/punishment cycle ends.

The position you are in is irrelevant, as you have done nothing to deserve anything you wouldnt have deserved had they taken the shot themself.

Which brings me back to the idea of removing the random shot announcement, and perhaps enhancing that by giving a random "overtime" of, say, 50% of normal shot time.

That way you will never be sure, so can never feel hard done by

I think that's another popular misunderstanding of the reality of the situation. The fact is that unless you are in the same room as your opponent you do not know for certain who has played a shot against you. If your opponent is sitting next to his mate who he/she asks to play a shot for them whilst they went off to put the kettle on you would have no way of knowing that. That shot played may be the same better, worse, or a completely random effort compared to what would have been played. Would you be worrying about it? Would you complain about it? Of course not. All you would know was that a shot was played. Which is not really any different to a computer playing a random shot on behalf of someone who is on their lonesome.

If you really want a system which is absolutely 100% fair to everyone 100% of the time then you have a system that gurantees a shot is played at the end of the time clock whether you are on your own and sidetracked or not on your own, with the luxury of someone to play on your behalf, whilst youre sidetracked.

ye but we know it was the system cos it says
the shot that should not be played
it is annoying and not fair to be hard done by this action

So remove it saying random shot time limit penalty

wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they didnt fire it half pace off a cush to hit nothing



remove it saying random pen and make them always hit there colour, stops them complainging as then for 100% you cant tell unless they say they didnt take that shot, if your snookerd they wont know cos its hit a red and nto been called a random

take the time clock off when its not your shot and as long as the shot was sensible then couldnt be able to tell

even if it remains on you cant tell, the speed of there computer depends on there clock, so you can see 5secs left, they could see 20 secs left, it makes no odds the shot clock

but usually it doesnt lag and is fairly in sync, if you can see the timer hit 0 and then random shot is played you know its system

no time shown - have to find another way of counting which can always be open to human error (meaning less accuracy)

Which is why I suggested :

Some say you would know because a player would never fire off a half power shot against a cushion etc, but I certainly know I have played many goofy shots like that to get one in before the timer runs out!

And, every now and then, they have worked out very well for me. Which is why, to me, complaining about the random being unfair is like saying all flukes, especially played by us rubbish players who like to hit n hope a lot, should be dissallowed also!

whatever

The thing is, it may stop people complaining about it, but it that doesn't change the fact still be unfair.

Flukes are a part of the game, I can barely go a game in real life without a total fluke along the way. And as annoying as flukes can be on here, they are a part of the game and most of us have grown to accept it. However, random shots are not a part of the game and they shouldn't be on here either. Randoms can ruin the opponents tactics, even lose them the game. And I don't believe in the fact that most randoms go where you wanted them to anyway - most of my own randoms go in the opposite direction.

basicaly what you mean to say is you toke a random shot instead of the computer

Totally disagree with this.

A fluke is a piece of luck for someone who is trying to compete in a game.

A random shot is a penalty for someone who either isn't paying attention, has left the room, has ha dto answer the door etc, but like it or not isn't paying full attention to the game. When you enter a game you know that if you leave your pc and miss your time slot for your shot you will be penalized.

The luck associated with random time shots brings in time limits on shots too. If you enter a 10 second game and you aren't good enough to line up a shot in 10 seconds then you should be penalized. You have entered a game knowing the time limit and you have to face the consequences if you can't meet the criteria.

However if you face the scenario above of a 10 second shot and you miss the shot time and get a random, the random chance to pot through luck shouldn't even be there. You might as well take away time differences in shot limits and just set everything to 30 seconds if the random shot isn't changed...

I think you should keep random shot but make it that it only hits there ball but not potting it.