i have cleared this up, but just to clarify again; i do take back the "cheat" term i originally used. i still very much stand by my call of it being unsporting - which is supported in a respected pool governing bodys guidelines too which has been established.

and yes, this is funkypool, but just because this is a computer game of pool, i still dont think that means it bypasses ethical viewpoints held by authorities in "real life" pool.

no, i think you've made a fairly ignorant prediction here. to block a pocket in us8 (and touching a rail at the same time so it is not a foul shot) requires a fair amount of aim and precision power hitting. to assume that if the response of purposely sinking your opponents blocking ball were removed would lead to all top players always and only playing blocks is ridiculous, this would not happen. it is alot easier to sink a ball in a pocket than to jaw it in the pocket leaving it sitting there - with a legitimate shot where a ball has touched a rail.

complete exaggeration. it wouldnt ruin the game type completely, it would encourage players to think more about their options rather than to simply opt for a foul shot.

choosing to purposely foul and cover a pocket is not a balanced retort to having a pocket blocked by your opponent, when your opponent has adhered to the rules and played in a sporting fashion. especially if its the situation where you have more than one ball very close to that pocket, that are now left in no man's land because your opponent has chosen to perform an "unsportsmanlike" move - according to the pool guidelines stated by martin.

this is all hypothetical as the penalty system in us8 is not going to change. but still, a game where you are encouraged to play a style of pool where you do not purposely foul would not ruin the game at all

i referred to myself as a purist somewhat jovially. but there would not be anything "un-pure" (for lack of a better term) for purposely blocking pockets in pool would there? its a tactical move, aslong as you are not committing any sort of foul on the table, i dont see how that is not pure and consistent with what is allowed and correct in pool.

Is there also the rule of fouling when potting an opponent's ball group in real pool? I'd say it's just some give and take of real life pool rules to better suite this online pool style. Just like when playing in a bar, there isn't a rule against deliberate fouls being made.

Also talking about rules(official tournament ones), then wouldn't you consider ramming a cluster of balls with the hope to fluke something just as unsporting, since you need to call your shots. It is just as annoying as an intentional foul but it still goes unpunished on funkypool.

All i can say is, just make do with the rules that govern funkypool and not go comparing it with official or even bar-styled game rules. The "ethical viewpoints" of "real pool" aren't all that about ethics but rather situations.

Edited at 07:21 Sat 16/01/10 (GMT)

oh yea. with the unique rule of not being able to pot any of your opponent's ball group, it becomes rather clear that attempting an intentional foul should not result in any further disadvantage to the person doing it. since many a time i find myself not being able to pot strips without potting a solid. even with that knowledge i still go ahead with the main intention to pot his ball, which in real pool is allowed.

hope these help u accept the differences between funkypool and "real pool".

Deliberately fouling is also allowed but you see that as unpure, surely a 'pure' player would be someone who simply attempts to pot all their balls without trying to slow down the game like blocking the pockets does.

I never said it didn't take skill. Like pretty much any other aspect of this game, including fouling to remove blocks, it takes skill.

Problem is that it requires less skill and involves less risk of backfiring than is the case in real life pool. Especially in terms of power control, every player on the top half of the tables here on funky pool plays with a power control comparable to world champion level in real life. In short - power control in this game is easy, given you play a fair bit and use a decent mouse.

The relevance of all this is that blocking pockets is easier than in real life, happens more often and with more precision, meaning the block will often be unremovable without the option of fouling.

The bottom line *I* want to avoid at pretty much all cost, is for the us8 game to be turned 100% into a "blocking pockets" fest. It already is pretty close to being just that, and this would push it into that state very easily.

It would benefit players like myself who love strategy and for the game to be about more than mere potting, but that still doesn't mean I think it's the right way to go.

Well, again missing the point in the name of relativity I see

My point is that the fouling player is still at a disadvantage, albeit a slightly reduced one.

Being at a power balance in the frame of -3 instead of -7 is still a disadvantage

I can think of situations in 8 ball where playing a deliberate foul gives that player a positive (and indeed often a winning) advantage as opposed to 'a slightly reduced' disadvantage. That's why the penalty for incurring a deliberate foul should, ideally, always be sufficient to counter the benefits of making a foul.

I have to say that if the rules are to change in 8 ball then that proposed by martin_blank would seem to be best one to introduce.

I think there is nothing wrong with tinkering with rules on here if they improve the overall gameplay.

but is it even a foul in real pool where u pot an opponent's ball group given that you hit yours first? there's no way this unique rule on funkypool can go together with a penalty on a deliberate foul...since a worse penalty on us8 would be the loss of the frame.

Yes I believe it is, just like here on FP.

The only mistake people are making here is thinking there's anything wrong with fouling.

In the case of tapping an opposing ball into a cushion or such yes. In the case of potting, no.

it isn't in most parts of the world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-ball#Fouls

Very good point justforplay, and one that ought to largely put this original topic to bed.

In those situations, the player with the ball in hand has the option to counter the benifits themselves.

Blocking the pockets are fairly easy shots, it then its harder to foul and keep any advantage and harder still to counter the advantage unless you can just clear up using the ball in hand very wisely.

There are circumstances (like the one mentioned earlier) where deliberately potting a blocking ball with your own can mean, depending on the position of the black, that the incoming player is left with an extremely low percentage shot of either potting the black or leaving the table safe. That is just one example of a huge advantage being gained from a deliberate foul. An advantage that potentially could be more fairly countered by a tweak to the rules.

I really dont think Wikipedia can be used to settle any argument on the rules of the funkypool games

Indeed you only need to look at the rule regarding the potting of the black off the break to see the next discussion thread

Personally I don't mind whether the rules change or stay the same. However Funkypool games are not real games and they should only try and mirror real rules as far as possible. If there are rules that might potentially enhance the gameplay experience then they should be discussed fully and maybe even trialled.

But the advantage lost was first gained using unsporting means, blocking the pockets, so they cant feel that agrieved if someone uses a shot which is tactically ingenius

Why unsporting if played using legal shots as a matter of interest? (I am guessing I may have missed something from earlier in the thread here?)....

....and my only opinion on this debate is really that ideally you should not be able to gain an advantage from playing a deliberate foul if the penalties are pitched at the right level eg not too punitive and not too lenient.

It has no more and no less relevancy than any other source for real life pool rules. In any case, the question of what the real life rules are is far less important.

The real question, before even considering real life comparisons, is whether or not this game should adopt real life rules or not. In my opinion, a yes is far from given, simply because the input method for this game means we have entirely different advantages and disadvantages compared to real life pool. When it comes to the topic of blocking pockets, the average player in this site can do so better, more reliably and with less risk than a real life world champion would.

In short, the game is a game, and to maintain any sort of balance between effort vs. reward, and to keep game strategies a bit open and not locked into a single lane, real life considerations may have to take the back seat now and then. Besides, potting an opponent ball if doing so by hitting your own ball first seems to normally not be a foul anyway.