But, what's the point in submitting team sheets if tactical subs can be made?

I think it's an extremely difficult thing to control - on one hand I really dislike tactical subbing as it is essentially match fixing but on the other hand if you want to match your best player vs their best player to minimise damage against your clan why not make a sub/swap?

Yes you should submit team lists and they should be played (which is why I tried a 7 day cap to get original games played - didn't work) but having said that a captain should be allowed to run their clan as they see fit and telling them they can't make subs unless its a league pre-approved i.e. timezones, inactivity, etc, sub is borderline dictatorship.

If The Professionals want to sub out one player for a better player then so be it, I would take it as a compliment, as they must be scared of us.

Like I said, this is a competition and you should be allowed to play to win not just play

its simple, just limit the number of subs and swaps, so all captains will have to think it twice when they sub out players or when they make swaps.
for me it would be good if are allowed
4-5 Subs
2 Swaps

There is no limit on the subs in the FBL though, and you can't get subbed into two different games (without playing the first)

Two swaps is just more "tactical" stuff going on then isn't it. Although tactics come into this league and others all the time.

Borderline dictatorship??? Lol

It's an easy thing to control if needs be.

We won't be limiting the number of subs or swaps as that encourages defaults. If we do impose limits, the only thing we will do is restricting subs to those reasons I listed on the previous page to stop tactical subbing (as a sub made for anything other than those reasons is a tactical sub)

Personally I would never make a tactical sub as I feel they are against the spirit of the game, but I have absolute no problem with other people making them if it's not against the rules.

I'm just trying to work out what people want, after all the arguments this season and the tactical sub discussion thread on the clan page I thought that the majority of people were against tactical subbing...

The argument that ensued the other day (B/M vs E/F) was only due to someone who makes tactical subs constantly having a wobbly because someone used one against his team. If you don't take the absolutely mick with tactical subs then they should continue to have a place in the leagues.

im not against tactical subbing, i am against choosing all 8 opponents at starts of the fixtures. for example Eagles made three subs in the second day of the fixture against us, and the three players who were subbed out are more than active in this site. i think this should be eliminated. and a good manner to do it is to limit subs or swaps. 4-5 subs are more than sufficient not to let games go to default, if u need more than your team must be a team who isnt active enough and shouldnt be allowed in the league.

Tactical subs Should have No place in the leagues, you put a team
Out knowing what players another team has at its disposal and that's that, why should you be able to pick and choose who people play just because you feel they match up better,

Take the Ryder cup for example they both hand in their sets of pairings they then cant change It because they feel a pairing isn't strong enough.

theres no way you can stop it matty, the only way to remove tactical subbing is not to allow subbing at all. if u put limits in subbing and swaps u can remove the amount of tactical subs though

I'm just going by what I've read on the clan threads and that tactical subbing thread.

I don't understand the difference between choosing your opponents and a tactical swap/sub?

I'm sorry but there is no way you can completely eliminate tactical swaps/subs. Captains can just asks their players to follow certain actions to get around your pre-approved league subs.

You're right. But you can put rules in that make tactical subbing against the rules and then penalise clans that are found to break those rules

What I'm trying to say is that it isn't against the rules currently. You still haven't said whether you are against them or not against them and have sat on the fence? You say that captains can find ways around them, but that goes for most rules so it's a null argument

its just like in football, u arent allowed to sub 11 of your players youre allowed only 3. so if u want to win a match u need to use those 3 subs well, it may be a tactical sub or maybe cause one of the players is injured, but in the end u are only allowed 3 subs. Making analogy to football, choosing your opponents is the same as removing the team you first put in and redesign it in accordance how your opponent is placed in the field when the game has already started. thats why i say that subs and swaps should be limited

Edited at 14:38 Fri 19/07/13 (BST)

I like this analogy

I think to be honest erigert has the right kind of idea, let people make whatever subs they want but limit them. so if you are going to waste your subs being tactical then your own fault if you have none to cover unplayed games on deadline day.

What happens if you have used all 3 subs and then your 4 players are sent off in football? lol
This might happen here as well. Say you have used all the subs and then your players deactivate or get banned or fails to play the match in time. There is nothing that can be done in these cases when the subs/swaps are limited. This would eventually result in more defaults

then you would have to default the game like you would in football ;)

right matt, i havent seen a team win till now with 4 players sent off , i think the number of subs here shouldnt be 3 like in football though but 4-5 subs.

If a players gets banned or deactivates there is still the sub in rule which I personally wouldn't count as one of your limited subs, these are emergency subs. You have to still bear in mind the league doesn't want defaults still.

I think that so long as all teams are able to make tactical subs how does it harm? If anything it would another element of skill to captaining a clan instead of any old tool captaining. If some teams are doing it without other teams doing it then it's unfair because it's not a level playing field, but if all teams are aware that they can make a certain amount of subs/swaps as soon as the fixtures are released and are aware that that amount will affect the amount of subs they have left, it just adds a more competitive and tactical element to the whole game. If i'm honest, there should be some level of skill and knowledge of the game required to be a captain, and this would show which captains actually know their teams and which are useless twits

yeah i agree with you jema, maybe for people who get banned (not including deactivation here as the player may still come back) the sub is not counted