We were left with no choice but to remove the original thread on this topic due to the amount of innacurate (at best) information being related as fact.

From the initial post :



As stated on that thread, even if we knew when someone has deactivated and created a new account, it would be wrong on any level for us to "mark" the account in some way so as to let other users know.

Regarding multiple accounts, the sites policy is very clear and is enforced as such.

http://www.funkypool.com/help#multiple_accounts


This topic does crop up every now and then however, so perhaps an unobtrusive and fair option would be to be able to disable the display of an opponent status.

This way all opponents would appear the same and the problem for people who are apparently distracted by labels like "newbie" etc would be eliminated.

I'm gonna say this one last time:

Whether YOU feel those rules are clear or not, and whether they are enforced in a clear or not manner is completely, utterly irrelevant. Any rule-giving authority will tend to find their own work crystal clear - since they are worded within your own frame of mind.


The opinion that IS relevant though, and defines whether those rules are indeed clear or not, is that of the users. If users don't find the rules clear, they are not clear. Simple as that. No matter how you feel about it Dave.

And the number of times subjects like these are brought up speaks a pretty clear (pardon the pun) story on just how clear the users find these rules and their enforcement.

You have even said yourself, several times, that this rule is intentionally vague. I can appreciate that, since anyone who is technically adept will realize this is how it needs to be. But it's a blatant contradiction to in the next moment try to claim they are clear.

bottom line though: The rules need to be clear from the perspective of those being supposed to follow them. As long as that is not the case, the rules aren't clear at all.

Why not let the user decide by having a drop down box in the players own profile. Instead of the default 'newbie' during first hundred games in each format the individual player could select an alternate option such as 'not a newbie' or 'ex pro account' or.... ideas from anyone

Actually a good idea.

And even better idea: Start new accounts a LOT higher than 675.0

Start new accounts at 775 for example. For new, bad players, the worst thing that happens is they lose points and drop down to where they belong. But they don't hurt others' rank in the process.

I don't see why this is a big deal, if you don't like playing fake newbies, don't play newbies, it's as simple as.

Alternatively, check their profile, a fake newbie will usually have a high win percentage.

If people want to say they are not a newbie then they will simple as, there is no need for a box or anything, if its a problem just dont play newbies in this case. I just dont see the benefit in it really but thats just my opinion.

A system that negated the possibility of ever "escaping your right rank" would been by far the best, but completely impossible...

Reset would have to be removed, deactivation would have to be removed, and most importantly you would need some kind of rule preventing a user from ever returning to the site on another account. The only approach that even closes on that would be to allow a single account per IP and never allow new accounts to be created from any IP ever used by any account to access the site. Obviously not very realistic.

The two first are dead easy - reset you simply remove, deactivation you can also remove since there are no legal issues with that since we leave no personal info to register here, but allowing a single account ever from any given IP would be a complete killer - since many have dynamic IPs, access the net through non-transparent proxies (AOL anyone, lol) etc etc

In the end of the day this is nothing more than a wet dream on my part though, but man how nice it would be to have rank be a proper handicap system without loopholes to get around it.

I actually see that as a very simple solution to a lot of issues raised in these discussions. Start with the assumption that any new account is a player with ability and if that assumption is correct they will be near their true position immediately and unable to easily a) cause great damage to already established high ranked players or b) take advantage of lower ranked players the way it happens currently when a good player on a new account starts at 675. Especially when this is combined with the 'newbie' moderation.

An additional benefit would be that genuine newbies would be more likely to get games against all players rather than being shown disdain by some seeking self-preservation.

The only perceived negative I can see (until someone points others out to me!! lol) is that a genuine new player finding his feet in the game is likely to see themself tumbling scorewise which could be disheartening if viewed from a narrow perspective rather than seeing the wider picture. Maybe the ranked score for a newbie could be hidden from view until the 100 games have been played?? (thats just a very quickly thought up idea which is there to be shot at!! )

Well, a true newbie in average loses far more games than they win regardless of how we do the ranking system really... And they wouldn't drop like a stone like one might believe at first glance.... if the default score was set to 775 for example, the rank distribution would shift to have more players in that segment (just like any reset or new account "falsely" shifts the average rank among the player base artificially low as it is now)

I don't see how hiding their rank would help tho - and I don't think that aspect needs any help at all.

As a matter of principle though, as you already mention, the ranking system would work far better as a handicap system if players were started off somewhere in the middle rather than at what is considered the low end.

(I know some people try to point it not being a handicap system, I *know* that, but that doesn't mean we can't have opinions on that being precisely what it ought to be and working toward that goal)

Something also necessary for "proper" rank (a site-long desore of mine too) is making all games ranked.

This is going a bit off topic but in a good way. I logged on as a snooker post just inspired an idea that may have some relevance (new thread imminent).

The suggestion of a higher rank for newbies is a good one, combined with a greater ratio of "newbie adjustment", I see no problem with that.

Edited at 23:28 Mon 13/09/10 (BST)

I love the idea of a newbie having a higher rank to start, But didnt the new game choice between ranks bring this argument into perspective and reduce this discussion. Having the choice of what rank to play surely makes the newbie option reduced or am i missing something

As for the idea of making a new account i dont see why this can be an issue because you get to choice who you play in every game 'apart from tournament games' So apart from tournament where you dont get the choice how can this be a big problem.

Why do newbies have to be ranked at all?

Make all newbie games friendlies, let them play tournaments (incentive to sign up and not just be a guest), then when they turn 100 games, give them a rank based on their win percentage assuming an average opponent each game.

so if you dont lose you get a 900 rank lol

If you lose all them get a super low like 600?

Not being daft here what would people like to see if this went ahead?

Would stop the fake newbies coming through, as most with multiple accounts dont bother playing 100 games....

Yep. Thats what happens just now, so whats the difference?

Except the way I proposed means they don't influence others ranks one way or the other for the first 100 games and then "slot in" to the ranking system at a more appropriate level.

I'm actually re-thinking whether they should be allowed to enter tournaments as well. It's fairer to keep such accolades as tournament wins to those who have proven themselves to a degree.

I think "new accounts" should only be aloud to play friendlies for like first 3 months then after that they get the basic 675 rank and ability to enter tournaments and speak on the forums... because 9/10 "fake" newbies wouldn't even bover with it

I cant see why the ranks need changing at all for newbies , as Rogan said >> I don't see why this is a big deal, if you don't like playing fake newbies, don't play newbies, it's as simple as.

Alternatively, check their profile, a fake newbie will usually have a high win percentage~~

Why are high ranked players playing newbies anyway , you run the risk of large points loss if you lose , and can be accused of rank farming << jans words lol if you win to many ? So its simple if you have a high rank dont play them or play friendlies against them. I do how ever think newbies shouldnt be allowed to play tournaments untill a certain amount of time has passed

That's actually quite brilliant, but one possible downside would be making it harder for them to get games I'd imagine.... Maybe not a real problem tho

Problem is that this hurts real newbies since they get a harder time finding games.

And it is important that any rank should be able to play any other - it's a great way for new players to learn. Just like it's important for higher ranked players to be able to play lowbies, simply because lowbies is often the only alternative present to you - especially during non prime-time hours.

Don't agree with making newbies play friendlies for 3 months - if you reset for some obscure reason (yes I'm getting over it) then you would only be able to play friendlies with no rank.....

Starting with a higher rank is interesting tho - say 750 (a number pick from thin air) - genuine pros would be back to 800 in no time and no doubt others will their rank soon enough. Obviously the newbie modification would have to change to allow for a pro playing a genuine newbie.