I've just played xxxxxxxx in the 8 ball tournament, i won the first frame,and in the second he deliberately timed the game out,he had plenty of opportunity's to win and go through but choose to time the game out instead. Can any one see any logic in this kind of play ?


Edited at 09:45 Wed 31/03/10 (BST)

Edited by forum moderator clooneman, at 19:29 Fri 02/04/10 (BST)

It's classed in my book cheating.

Donna i have had this a few time's to and it get's all my nerves i usually speak to a mod during the game being played though and most of the time thy decide to boot play for basic wasting time.

Better remove the name though or this will be a clear case of naming and shaming.

And that's incorrect golden_shot, no mod will boot a player for "wasting time" in a tourny game. First of all because it's not cheating in any way - any player is entitled to use the full shot clock at any time should they choose to. And Secondly, and more importantly, because they have nothing but your word for it - and no mod shall ever take the word of a user above that of another. Any mod doing that is breaking fundamental staff rules.

Don't get me wrong - I fully agree it's lame behaviour, but in the end of the day they are breaking no rules and you can not expect them to get booted or otherwise punished for it.

<abbreviations do not change meanings, be polite to all users on the forums please>

Edited by forum moderator spinner, at 23:01 Wed 31/03/10 (BST)

Everyone is entitled to play to the full amount allowed by the shot clock, no-one can disagree there. However, deliberately wasting time to deliberately bring about a DQ-DQ result means the player has no intention of winning the tournament (or progressing to the next round at least) and is deliberately trying to take his/her opponent with him/her. That's unfair on an opponent who wants to win. Trying to unfairly prevent an opponent from winning is cheating.

I agree cloone but how can you distinguish the difference between someone who is deliberately playing to run down clock and someone who has a slow running computer! Is there anyway funkypool can tell the difference! If not then these players can never be punished. Count to ten Chaos!

When they admit it?
i've had people admitting they are (or just did) waste time so there was a double DQ

Deliberately trying to get an opponent DQ'd is cheating isn't it?
much like diving in football

Actually incorrect.

Deliberately playing for a double DQ, lame as it is, does not break any FP rules as far as I can see.

Technically, all they are doing is stalling, by playing slow (perfectly legitimate) and by setting up positions rather than potting their balls (also perfectly legitimate).


I'd love to see some kind of rule regarding this scenario, but we all know all too well that any rule you'd care to make about this would be totally impossible to enforce.

When it comes to rules and systems that are possible to enforce, you cannot look at the intentions behind their actions.

All you can look at and consider (and possibly outlaw) are their actions themselves.

And if we are gonna break it down, precisely what is such a player doing?

1. Spending the full shot time each and every shot. I'm sure you realize why, and agree you cannot possible even consider banning that....

2. Not potting. This is technically just missing shots. You cannot prohibit that either...

So in essence, none of the independent actions a player takes toward the goal of stalling a game can really be prohibited at all. And therefore it is impossible to make any rule against it too.

But surely there needs to be some sort of logic that tries to eliminate this from happening.

Timing a game out is unfair on the one who is trying to win the match fairly and squarly.

It would be near impossible to police, but surely there is some sort of automated way we can avoid this. Currently a person is booted if they time out three consecutive times, so why cant we do the same if they hit the 5 second warning (on their computer timing) three consecutive times?

A little drastic yes, but we are here for fun and not to toy around and exploit loopholes that is unfair on everyone involved.

There is a loophole, lets tie that up and look for another one

And Jan, I would remove the abbreviated profanity off your first post so you don't face any type of trouble from forum mods

When i play a speed tourney.. i usually got allways that bloody beepin on every shot.. you cant possibly boot me for that!

MIke

Maybe 3 seconds then?

Something which makes the player make a move before time expires at least once every three shots.

Not all problems have a solution - people often have trouble coming to terms with that, but this is a typical example.

And why should we punish people for hitting the 5 second warning? The shot time is 20 seconds, meaning players have 20 seconds for each shot. The game already takes care of moving the game forward after that point - without blaming the player for it.

With the current clock system, there is no solution to this. You could increase overall game time, but that increases the waiting you have to do on other games than your own as well - and that's clearly unwanted.

The only real way forward on this sort of problem would be a chess clock system - which would be far more fair for everyone, but obviously takes a bit of work from Nick and therefore will not likely happen anytime soon.

As for the abbreviation, if forum mods have issues with that one I'm sure they'll edit it and point it out.

Edited at 15:03 Wed 31/03/10 (BST)

Maybe when the time limit for the round gets to 5 mins (less on the speed) there could be a ball in hand for not potting (it would stop double dqs which is the goal here)

I think with being dq'd by going under 3 seconds 3 consecutive times people could still go under 2 times then they dont then then can just do it all over again

I've had a look through the rules myself, and although I couldn't see anything specifically there relating to deliberately wasting time to get a DQ-DQ and making no attempt to win, there are one or two mentions of bad sportsmanship, demonstrating that this is something that is ideally help by all players here. So whereas playing for a DQ-DQ might not get a specific mention on this site as cheating, it's certainly against the sporting spirit, and (in my lowly opinion) qualifies as cheating under that definition.

tricky one, at the end of the day the shot clock is 20 seconds for players to play whatever shot they want to, as said by crazzymadman "how can you distinguish the difference between someone who is deliberately playing to run down the clock and someone who has a slow running computer", now if someone says in the room they are doing it to get you disqualified thats a different matter, this needs to be stopped, Jan's idea of a chess clock would be good as slow players would only be punishing themselves, if a player says this to you maybe it should be classed as cheating in the Funkypool rules then you could send complaint and let admin deal with them, yes you might be knocked out the tournament but least you could help stop that player doing it to others.
As i said above "its a tricky one", no matter what rule changes are made you will still get the odd player doing this, they just won't say.

Sorry but don't like this idea seems like if we have 20 seconds we should have right to use them.

I do see what your going with this though

*goes back to thinking up a better idea*

You'd be stopping that account, not player.

they could easily create a new account - unfortunately there are people who would do this

End of the day, if your going to go far in the tourny you would see no problem in this.I myself have played someone that has tried to time it out many'a time, but if you are smart with how you play, and you think 1 step ahead of the simple snooker shot they may play, or the obv ball choice they will hit you can counter-act it to put his slow play into your favour, meaning you have left balls over the pockets that could become an easy double, or a lucky flick off another ball of yours.
I dont seem to find this as cheating, mearly more of a challenge to the tourny's. Also increases your patience and creativity of play. but then again that's just me.
To some people its more of a game if they are to be slowly getting held up, to others its a pain, just like your unable to roll up snooker on us8. Some people hate the fact they cant do that without the aid of a cusion, others like it as it means there is more potting and tactics then mearly snookering.


I'll wait for the big chunk of a reply i get

Hmm, sorry, gotta disagree there... The only chalenge you should have to face is who qualifies for the next round, you or your opponent. If your opponent intends to take both of you out, then he/she is participating dishonestly.

very true zante,
as it stands at the moment, the shot clock is 20 seconds and its up to the players how they use the time, if they choose to play with 1 second left thats their prerogative, its the players that turn up for a tournament game and say they are playing for the double DQ I find strange, why bother turning up ?