There's been a few voices against the current match format
(first to 3 for 8 ball games, first to 4 in 9 ball), so I've made this thread for discussing it and possibly coming up with a new format. When or if it might be possible to get any format changes introduced into the leagues is completely up to the hosts of course.

My own views on this:

I tend to agree with those who claim 9 ball is a dicey game that has too much weight in the current format. Reducing it to first to 3 like the other games would be good - and would also help standardize the match format between the different game types - making it easier to remember for all involved.

When it comes to introducing straight into this format, I'm not so sure... While it would be fun and add even more variation, it would also dramatically add to the time required to get league matches completed, making it harder to get all games played.

In the end, this is entirely up to the league hosts of course, but at least this is a place where people (the hosts included) can have their say in the matter.

Yeah agree with you on this in that it would even the format to bring the 9ball down to 3 as 9ball can be abit lucky (more so than the 8ball games).

The idea of bringing in a straight game would be good, but as you point out, it can add another 10-15 mins to the match time which isn't so good but if there was enough people who would like to see this then it could be a consideration to think about.

I'm sure there will be people who think the current format is fine but the 9ball results do count more towards the match result than the other 2 which i think should be looked at.

A scenario is if some one loses the 9ball 4-0 then wins 8ball 3-1 then wins 8balluk 3-1, he/she only gets a 6-6 draw even though they won 2 out of the 3 disiplines convincingly where as if 9ball was only to 3 and lost that 3-0 then they would of won the match 6-5 which would be a fairer result, but this is my thought on this and sure everyone else will have their own view on this, so let's hear what we all think then maybe a format change could be considered.

Edited at 12:08 Tue 5/05/09 (BST)

I vote for this to happen

me 2 i vote 4 this

From coolhandct:

9 ball is a pure lottery and the least of all formats to do with skill but is becoming most important in determining overall result of each match

i feel very strongly that you should take opinions for next season whether im in it or not as dont think it should be first to 4 in 9 ball

its the only game where 1 ball is needed for victory or one player can pot all but one and lose or you can lose 4 0 or 4 1 which looks like a tanking yet is purely down to a couple of lucky combos being on

just because its quick doesnt in my opinion justify it having the most games

should be even number for all games to get true and most importantly a fair test

...more on 9 ball discussion

if you look at results that are coming through there are matches where one player is winning 8 ball and uk but losing 9 ball heavily and losing overall because of it

you may say well so be it and if it was first to 3 in 9 ball it woulf be but its because of the extra frame that gives it the edge

this is my first ever season in league etc and im enjoying it but so far ive played 4 league matches and 1 cup

out of 5 matches ive won 2 by 10 3 and 10 3 so was better in all formats and it didnt matter too much

ive drawn one cup match 7 7 due to losing 9 ball 4 1 so actually won 2 formats to one which if 9 ball was to 3 i would have won 7 6 which is maybe fairer in view of this

i lost a match 8 7 which again i won 2 formats to 1 but because i lost 4 1 in 9 ball i lost match which would have been draw if only to 3

in other match i lost 9 4 so would not have made too much of a diff as i got a tanking but hope you can see where im going with this.

My point is that in the 9 ball games im not losing 4 1 cos im getting hammered but because of a few combos luckily becoming on or flukes etc so why should it be the overiding factor in determining result in so many matches

players are frequently winning 8 ball and uk in a match but drawing or losing overall cos of lottery that is 9 ball.

Edited at 15:20 Tue 5/05/09 (BST)

...continued for coolhandct

i have 2 suggestions

either make all 3 formats first to 3 as i see no reason not to

or if keeping it first to 4 as well as awarding 1 point per game award a point to winner of each format within a match

for example

player a beats player b 8 7

8 ball - player b won 3 2
uk - player b won 3 2
9 ball player a won 4 1

player a is awarded 1 pt for winning 9 ball and player b is awarded 2 pts for winning 8 ball and uk

so final score would be 9 9

player a benefits by winning the 9 ball easily but player b gets credit for winning 2 other versions

what do you all think

Edited at 15:21 Tue 5/05/09 (BST)

That is all correct and hopefully will be brought in next season

race to 3 in 9ball...yep

straight?...no bloody way!

Yeah adding to what coolhandct has said.
I had a match last night and first game we played was 9 ball, he beat me 4-0 in that, not cos of flukes, he played v well and think it was his strongest format.
Next we played 8 ball which is my strongest format and I beat him 3-0.
We then played 8ball UK and we were tied on 2-2, now I would of felt the last frame should of been the decider between us as we were even in 8ball UK and we had won a format each convincingly so was a 50/50 game but because of the 4 frames in 9ball he had already won the match when we were 2-2 in last format and the presuure was on me to win last frame just to get a draw and the pressure wasn't on my opponent as much cos the match was won for him and he was just playing for the extra point, where I think the match would of felt more even if we were locked at 5-5 and last frame decided the win, equal pressure on each player.

So if it isn't a good idea to drop 1 frame and replace with 1 frame of straight, then just to drop the 1 frame from 9ball, also this way there is always going to be a winner if only 9 frames played instead of 10 (no draws would happen with a 9 frame match unlike a 10 frame match). Also if only 9 frames played, to add extra incentive like in league pool (real pool like the league I play in which best of 7 frames is played), the winning player could be awarded an extra point for the team (in our league if a team wins 5-2 say, they are awarded 6 points in the league), a small reward.

Good idea on the extra point for the winning team but i think having a draw is a good idea. I think they should replace with game of straight.

maybe even think of putting all the games first to 4?

firstly thanks to janmb for copying my comments accross and sorry to all for length of message.

its nice to see that there seems to be a bit of support of my views.

i have no problem playing a straight game personally but it would add quite a lot of time on and plenty of people arent even completing their matches already.

perhaps 2 2 2 and a straight but seems too short.

or skip straight and make it 3 3 3

still think you should consider awarding an extra point for winner of each format as it will benefit a player winning 2 formats to one but losing which seems a bit harsh

this would make a further 3 pts on offer over the frame numbers

or how about simply awarding so many points for win and draw and using frame scores as a kind of goal difference

after all if a team wins a footie match 7 0 or 1 0 its still 3 pts

if a player wins a snooker match 10 0 or 10 9 its just a win

think this might make whole thing more exciting

I agree with this, and quite frankly found it a bit surprising that there was no such point system when I first started playing clan games. A single bonus point to the winner in each format would be a good boost.


(And really looking forward to Stepth and Adam chiming in on this)

I think the format is fine the way it is. First to 4 in 9 ball is okay, I think you need a longer race in this discipline since luck does play some part, agreed. If it was reduced to first to 3 there would be more pressure on winning the first couple of racks. I find with a race to 4 you can make a comeback and this reduces the element of luck out of the match. Admittedly, by extending the race you are weighting the importance of the 9 ball result to the final match score. If there is to be change, the best idea would be make all matches race to 4 as newcastleutd pointed out. I'd be more in favour of that than introducing straight

I agree with walker in that first to 4 is the right call in terms of eliminating the element of luck that comes with playing 9 ball, any less than 4 could end up just being a complete fluke win for the opponent. A fine example of this (sorry in advance rogan) was when I was playing rogan and I was 3-0 down and having torrid luck, but managed to turn it around and lost 4-3 in the end. Putting all games as races to 4 is goo in theory, but it's a struggle to get players to play their games as it is, and increasing the number of games will only make matters worse in my opinion.

As for straight...absolute no-no, it's a stupid game that takes ages

Interesting, walker... then how about taking the 9 ball score and reducing the points for each player by 1, or by 0 if they failed to win a frame?

- A 4-0 win would equate to 3-0 towards the result
- A 4-1 win would equate to 3-0 towards the result
- A 4-2 win would equate to 3-1 towards the result
- A 4-3 win would equate to 3-2 towards the result

So the luck would still be removed or diluted by the length of the match, but the scoring towards the result would be in line with the other games.

How would that seem?



Takes ages - yes
Stupid - no

am sure just 1 extra game in 8ballus would stop any biast result for eg 9ball 4 8us 4 and uk just 3 games,as for straight as much as i love it,it would take the clan game a hell of a lot longer to complete

Yeah I'm not too fussy how its done, I just think getting a max possible total of 10 is better than 9, so if you introduce what cloone has desribed you could maybe add a bonus point for overall winner.

To be honest, I think we need as simple a system as possible. At the moment there is people struggling to add up 3, 4 and 2 when posting overall match results I honestly believe nothing needs to be changed.

If we were playing for the win in each discipline, where only the winner got points, then this is a valid line of thought. But we're not.

Since every frame counts, and the overall win in each discipline gets you nothing extra, the more frames you play, the larger fluke factor you have in the overall match result.

Not a big deal by any means, just pointing out a flawed line of thought here Walker

Complicated, but would be a step in the right direction, yes.

But since we're playing frames where each and every one of them count in the total result, we might as well just reduce the number to first to 3 anyway

The point is not really to stabilize and "defluke" which player wins the most frames in 9 ball. The point is to reduce the fluky contribution 9 ball represents in the overall match result.