When the cueball is up against the cushion you should block of the "spin ball" so they cannot put backspin on the ball; only top spin and the same when they are up against a ball otherwise it just makes the game so much easier than it should be.

yes, this has been mentioned a few times in the past - and I fully agree.

Give me a few minutes and I will try to out a screen shot on here for a good way to do this.

now I think it should look something like this, and maybe even late down the track, restrict spin when the cue ball is up against other balls.

But I think for what some want now, that would be near the end product.

Sounds very good in principle and it would make it a more realistic game if it was introduced properly however I suspect it would not necessarily be easy to do. For example you might be tight up against the cushion but the shot you want to play is along that cushion so you would be able to put full spin, of any type, on the shot in that instance.

The game would need to be able to recognise what shot you are intending to play first before placing any restrictions on it.

Would be a great addition, yes...

Same goes for side-spin when close to other balls etc...

The real challenge here is that the shadow is really a factor of the direction you intend to shoot, so we have a bit of a egg and hen problem in terms of sequence in the user interface... (basically what chris is talking about too)

Everything has a solution though, but not that easy.


Edit: One possible solution to this might be to keep the system as it is, then apply the cue ball aim point "exclusion zone" when you have set your aim and click your mouse button to start your shot... IF you have set a cue ball hit point that falls within this shadow, it's automatically moved to the edge of the shadow, along a straight line towards the cue ball centre. Then you would obviously be able to hold back your shot and redo the cue ball aim point if you wanted to, now with a better idea of where you will be able to keep it...

Also, you could do a real-time shadow on the cue ball as you move your aiming point around the table as an indication.

Complex and possibly messy, but doesn't really have to be... It's just a matter of finding a decent and intuitive GUI approach for all this.

Edited at 18:23 Thu 23/04/09 (BST)

totally agree flumps but ideally i would like it to be introduced over to snooker firstly

If we can get past the hurdles of making a sensible user interface for this in the first place, adding it to all relevant games should be a simple enough matter, snooker and pool alike.

snooker and pool are not alike, i just think that if this was possible then it should be brought over to snooker first,as when you make a safety and the white reaches the bulk line the player should not be able to hit the white with anything less than topspin,currently playing a safety and be able to place the white tight on the cushion is currently unrewarding and unrealistic.where as this tactic is rarely used in pool and is major part of snooker.

You missed my point completely. I never said this aspect being equally important for both games. I said the physics and computer technical challenges implementing it are...

So again, it isn't a matter of doing this for snooker or pool specifically, first or last - it's a matter of designing and implementing it at all - and when you have done that, applying it to each game type is more or less a simple formality.

i understood your point i was just emphasizing how much more beneficial it would be for snooker but perhaps you missed mine

While I agree, this is more of an opinion than it is technical fact.

Technically, it brings precisely the same tactical aspects to a game of pool as it does for snooker.

If something like this could be brought in I hope it would not be at the expense of the current physicalities of the game. I know players who have never played a cue game for real, or who have no concept of cue ball spin, but they can still compete on fairly even terms at the moment with anyone else.

A more realistic simulation of the game would be excellent but perhaps they could become the new 'Pro' version of the games since it doesn't look like the old 'Pro' tables, much missed by those that remember them, are ever going to make a return.

yep, a pro version is where this would belong

I've long expressed the opinion that this is one of the features best suited to a "simulation" version, if and when the time comes for such a game.

The problem is that it really needs a 3D game engine to be implimented properly (to take account of the angle of the butt of the cue)

A few other 2D pool sites have rudimentary versions of this system in place, and they are innacurate (regarding replicating real life behaviour) at best, and downright silly at worst!

I agree on the principle of keeping to a more "pro" type game, but it doesn't have to be a 3D modelled one in order to support this.

The cueball shadow (where you can't hit) can easily and correctly be implemented as a function of relative azimuth to the direction of the shot and distance to interfering objects (cushions and other balls). No need for a proper 3D modelled game to support this.

The next question of course is where to stop our attempts at more realism... If this were implemented, it would be quite tempting to also try to model the reduced precision of cushion shots, not only the limited spin options And taking control away from the player is never ever popular and would not be welcomed regardless of how much sense it would make.

Easily yes, but correctly, no. Currently we make the assumtion that the player always holds the cue completely level.

If so, this means the cue ball can be completely blocked by any other ball regardless of it's proximity. Thats something that doesn't happen in real life (the player just raises the butt of the cue as required) and would be very frustrating in practice. Just try a couple of the sites which use this method and you'll quickly see what i mean!

I agree that this game works well as a 2D game with the view from above. I wouldnt want to see it move away from that.

But to bring a little more realism and complexity to it, as an option, would be a nice addition even if as you say it wasnt completely an accurate representation.

You are right, it would have to be an approximation, since the vertical cue angle limits would have to be assumed rather than chosen. Besides, we have no current simulation of the effects of vertical cue angle (curved shots for example) anyway, so better not mess up by partially introducing something like that.

You could still approximate the cue ball shadow quite well tho, by applying sensible assumed limits to cue angle combined with distance from the obstruction.

I agree it's messy tho, and in any case belongs in a game with far less arcade factor than what we enjoy here on fp

Note that I never suggested a 3D game, just that to impliment this accurately would require the implimentation of additional 3D physics.

If you decided to make it a 3d-version make it is a downloadable so that the website and internet connection wouldn't be slow but if you put it on the website then the site and internet connection would be really slow. So if you decide to make it a 3d version. Put it on a downloadable client and keep the 2d version on the internet.